Opinion: Sony should charge for PSN to make it better like LIVE

[Zeus]

We think its fine, but an Xbox 360 fan website thinks Sony should start charging for PSN to bring it on 'par' with LIVE. What do you think about this? Should PSN be a charged service, Is Xbox Live that much better than PSN or should XBL even charge? Let us know!

<blockquote>I’ve struggled through using the Playstation Network and I admit that I think it would be better if they just charged a little to make it work somewhat better. The community that has evolved around Xbox Live is impressive to say the least and while John Gabriel’s Internet Dickwad Theory is always in clear and present view, it is comforting to know that the entire network is monitored and policed so that anyone who has the guts to be racist, sexist, homophobic or show off their cash and prizes via the Xbox Live camera will feel the full wrath of the Ban Hammer. Finally, the ability to play multiplayer and utilize the leaderboard abilities of numerous titles in a way that is painless in the most appropriate sense of the word strikes me in a way that makes the service just seem like something that was always worth paying for and will always be. Maybe someday Microsoft will decide that like Blizzard, they have enough money and will be able to provide awesome service. But, until that day comes, I’m content to shell out a bit of money per year in order to enjoy playing my games online with a 360 controller in my hands.</blockquote>

News Source: <A href="http://www.planetxbox360.com/article_8006/Why_Xbox_LIVE_is_Worth_the_Money_-_And_PSN_Is_Not/2" target="_blank">PlanetXbox360</a>

[tech3475]

Charge for PSN and Sony loose one of their (few) advantages over the 360. Although I agree it could and should be improved.

However if I had to pay I would not be paying for it since I would prefer XBL.

[Calcu]

psn is already far better than the laggy rip off live,psn looks far better too after the release of the 3.0 fw & you can even use dynamic themes now. ;)


the thread posted on "planet xbox360" is nothing more than a desperate cheap shot at the superier psn.

[Gorbachev]

Navigation and clarity of PSN is far better than XBL which is just a messy slideshow where you can't find anything easily.

Not commenting about the online play, though. I haven't had any problems in PSN in that regard either. Warhawk, Battlefield and other popular online games work more or less flawlessly in PSN.

[sangriaman]

psn is already far better than the laggy rip off live,psn looks far better too after the release of the 3.0 fw & you can even use dynamic themes now. ;)


the thread posted on "planet xbox360" is nothing more than a desperate cheap shot at the superier psn.


lol. you're not from this planet, are you?

LOL

[BeemerDream]

I say no in my opinion, don´t have anything to complain about...works great!:)

[beterweter]

psn is already far better than the laggy rip off live,psn looks far better too after the release of the 3.0 fw & you can even use dynamic themes now. ;)


the thread posted on "planet xbox360" is nothing more than a desperate cheap shot at the superier psn.

then tell us why it is supriour little girl,you must have some reason to go with that,something other then "its free"

i'm shure you have some good reason,so why do you think after 3.0 its made superior.

because you can vieuw some new psn content from in the gamesection?
because the twinkels?yeah thats it...its your colour now...pink.

the far superior service still doesnt support quick enough filebrowsing in my opinion+you still can't search all content from a-z in 1 flowing motion.
reaction is still slow,and links to netbrowser are just an easy cheap solution.

it still feels like a giant psp,but with mustard on the side.

its improved,but its still not up to par with live in anyway,so in my opinion,make it a pay service...

now about your lag...LOL...
shows you have no class at all and just bashing to bash...:p

but yeah,i know,

"you should feel sorry for iggi":rolleyes:


Navigation and clarity of PSN is far better than XBL which is just a messy slideshow where you can't find anything easily.

Not commenting about the online play, though. I haven't had any problems in PSN in that regard either. Warhawk, Battlefield and other popular online games work more or less flawlessly in PSN.

i disagree with you on this,the slideshows are easy to use,and very important,they are quick...
have no experience with netflix on the other hand as the service isnt live here.

[EL_CAD]

I tried playing Killzone2 over my friends house the other week, but we could not get a good connection for more then 10 minutes on either of their internet connections. They assured me that I was not normally that bad, but they did get dropped often. We wound up playing L4D on their 360s instead, which worked fine.

[tommasi]

charge for PSN and sell new games for $39

[dancougar]

I don't know what all the grief is about PSN. It works for me. If it cost money I never would have purchased a PS3. I don't care how good it "could" be if they charged. (And honestly....who here actually thinks Sony could/would make PSN any better if they charged??? I like Sony and Playstation a lot, but Sony is not known for using money in a way that benefits its customers.) The only monthly fee based model I would be interested in is for the video store....as long as it was reasonable...$10....maybe $15....but thats pushing it.

-Dan

[nivalis]

I’ve struggled through using the Playstation Network and I....


News Source: PlanetXbox360

K, i'll stop right there.

Side note, the old blades dashboard was much nicer to navigate than NXE, nxe is a fucking mess.

[nestortoy@hotma]

I believe no freaking company should charge to play online. Thats why you have the freaking DLC. I mean come on we are paying for internet already, we are buying their games.... and we still need to pay extra if we want to play online!? Doesnt make sence. Sony is proving that Microsoft doesnt need to charge to play online. I've gotten disconnected playing Killzone 2 and also playing Halo 3 but who really cares it happend rarely but it happends.

Hopefully Sony and Nintendo can preasure Microsoft not to charge for their service... Well Nintendo needs to really step up because what i've heard their online is crappy but i wouldnt know because i dont have a damn Wii.... and not plannin in getting one soon.

[Cue]

Seeing as this thread is just about opinion here's mine:
MS should stop charging for Live to make it better like PSN.

I found the whole article such asinine PR BS.

"Combine this with Last.fm, Facebook and Twitter capabilities and it becomes clear that Xbox Live has a potential that is constantly evolving to appeal to the users, as opposed to the users being told what they want."

Is he really being serious with this? if anything xbox live users are being told what they want and being slowly spoon fed because, you see, there is this thing called a browser which is completely irrelevant to Live and to PSN but exists on the PS3 which gives you access to these things instead of having to wait for it to be implemented for you. now what was that about being told what they want?


hey its the price of a meal or movie out, give me your money. PM me and I'll send you my paypal details for you to transfer it so that you could do what you did for free before only the price of a dinner dude, that's nothing.

My opinion, post it on the front page.

[nivalis]

"Combine this with Last.fm, Facebook and Twitter capabilities and it becomes clear that Xbox Live has a potential that is constantly evolving to appeal to the users, as opposed to the users being told what they want."

thats the thing, ps3 has these things anyway, you know, since it has a browser xD

[richbambam360]

lot of customers would of purchased the Playstation 3 over the xbox360 because it has free online capability to play games free online,Its too late to start charging now,if there gonna charge they should of charged a fee from Day 1 & for an inferior service too,I play on both PSN & xbox live & enjoy xbox live more mainly because most of my personal friends use xboxlive & I like the way you can play games & chat to a party of your friends at the same time

[kneehighspy]

i wouldn't pay for psn, but i do for live. there is no comparison between the two. live works for me with no isssues at all, psn is nice, but download speeds vary way too much. the ps3 browser is horribly slow, locks up every time i've tried to use it (all 4 or 5 times) and resets my ps3 when i try to exit it, all 4 or 5 times. browsing is best done from the pc, hopefully microsoft won't waste time with a browser.

no it's not my internet connection either cause i've got three laptops, 1 desktop pc, 360, wii, 2 psp's and 2 dsi's all using the same wireless and they all work just fine. i did try to run a cable from my ps3 to my dlink router, still the same speeds.

i agree live could be cheaper, or better yet free, but it's still a great service, but at $4 or so a month it's still worth it.

[osnoozeo]

i have never played a game online with ps3 yet, but i did try home and i thought it was stupid, not the ppl and stuff. but the fact that everywhere i gotta go, i have to redownload ****, and install this and wait for that. thats what keeps me away from home, but i traded in the 2 games i owned for my ps3 wich was kz2 and rs2. so really no need to play any more games till they come out with some good ones. waitn for gow3 and hell even 1,2 and uncharted will be a rental. but other that i really see no reason to play online with psx. and if they charge ppl for it, thats more of reason never to use it

[deftonesmx17]

As an everyday user of both systems, I'm not sure what I can point out that XBL Gold has over PSN besides cross-game chat. Both have flaws as far as im concerned, but no cross-game chat on the PS3 does tick me off.

However, I can point at one thing about XBL Gold that does annoy me. Its when they make demos Gold exclusive for a few days. As I have gold it doesnt really bother me, but for those silver people it has to be annoying when they cant play a demo for a few days on their xbox while is on the free PSN and available to everyone.

[DaFireStarter]

Hell NO! I am getting a PS3 just because the online is free...

[Anil8tr]

i agree live could be cheaper, or better yet free, but it's still a great service, but at $4 or so a month it's still worth it.

This.

Are people that bad off they can't afford the $4 a month that a cup of coffee costs? If you are, you have needs in life that require attention first and foremost before you even think about gaming. Let alone game on the most expensive console on the market.

[nestortoy@hotma]

lot of customers would of purchased the Playstation 3 over the xbox360 because it has free online capability to play games free online,Its too late to start charging now,if there gonna charge they should of charged a fee from Day 1 & for an inferior service too,I play on both PSN & xbox live & enjoy xbox live more mainly because most of my personal friends use xboxlive & I like the way you can play games & chat to a party of your friends at the same time

Im pretty sure that feature is coming soon. I remember when PSN did not have online chat... now it does... then you couldnt send messages while playing a game... Now you can check your messages, send a message with out leaving the game.

[kcvfr400]

Can't see the logic in this. Sounds pretty stupid.

I pay for a console, I pay for a game and I pay for my internet. So why would I want to pay again to use my game on my console, online. As they say fools and their money are easily parted. Or to put it another way if you look after the pennies the pounds will take care of themselves. Old saying but says alot.

This can only lead to further and full pay to play in the future if we accept it. It may be £40 a year but thats still a new game a year to me.

Perhaps thats one of the reasons my 360 don't get a look in for games as limited by the use I can make of them without online play.

[NakedFaerie]

PSN IS better than Live as its free.

[ThreeDog]

I wouldn't pay for PSN in the subscription sense but i would accept a 'pro' tier system which included:

Exclusive access to new online features before they went to everyone.
A couple of free themes a month. (does anyone buy them on any network?)
Discounts on the PSN store or offers that lower prices to store prices.
An initiative to place headsets in each and every PS3 box sold.
Ability to turn off any advertising we want ingame or not.
Options for full game hosting control.
Pro should include the ability to upgrade from custom soundtracks to free music playback (could probably afford all the patent fees)
A giant castle for each subscriber free in playstation home (includes several knights to defend it, a moat and a drawbridge)

Last but not least a free aibo wife: charges via usb, does the housework and laughs every time you kill someone.

[Cue]

i wouldn't pay for psn, but i do for live. there is no comparison between the two. live works for me with no isssues at all, psn is nice, but download speeds vary way too much. the ps3 browser is horribly slow, locks up every time i've tried to use it (all 4 or 5 times) and resets my ps3 when i try to exit it, all 4 or 5 times. browsing is best done from the pc, hopefully microsoft won't waste time with a browser.

no it's not my internet connection either cause i've got three laptops, 1 desktop pc, 360, wii, 2 psp's and 2 dsi's all using the same wireless and they all work just fine. i did try to run a cable from my ps3 to my dlink router, still the same speeds.

i agree live could be cheaper, or better yet free, but it's still a great service, but at $4 or so a month it's still worth it.

Just as PSN works for me with no issues at all.
Yep store downloads may be slower because that is actually server related but things like twitter, facebook, and last.fm and the browser are unrelated to either service. I've never had a problem with the PS3 browser. I use it all the time. all 100 times it worked flawlessly.

Yes a browser is best done on a pc just as you can say Twitter, facebook and last.fm and dare I say it Netflix is best done from a PC that's even more of a reason not to slowly bring these free services to Live and lock it to those who pay a subscription and on top of that charge a subscription on Netflix too when the platform it is done best on does it for free. Want the privilege of using their service on your machine you pay their subscription and our subscription too. fail to pay either and you lose that service.

Then you get the xboxplanet guy pretending that they have done us all a favour by charging us for these free things and everybody should follow suit. People brush it off as "well it's a small cost so why don't you pay it" I personally don't care how cheap it is it's not like I can't afford it but I simply won't pay it when the service is free on everything else. It's like Armitage Shanks charging me a subscription to use my own toilet just because I bought the toilet from them. These services are free and should remain free.

If people like the xboxplanet guy keeps thinking that these free services are worth it then slowly all the other companies are going to follow suit by locking up their systems, creating no browser then drip feeding us free services on our own hardware at a cost just like the 360 currently does.

[Cue]

However, I can point at one thing about XBL Gold that does annoy me. Its when they make demos Gold exclusive for a few days. As I have gold it doesnt really bother me, but for those silver people it has to be annoying when they cant play a demo for a few days on their xbox while is on the free PSN and available to everyone.

That's the way it has become because people like the author of that article have let it become like this. Even things like pre-ordering for the uncharted 2 beta. it's as if betas and demo's have become privileges consumers must pay for when in fact once upon a time it was a privilege to the publisher or dev if you downloaded it.

[Retroboy]

ive never had any issues using my ps3 to play online, and think sony should not be greedy like MS charging its gamers to play a game online that youve baught.

I agree that online gaming and downloads should remain free and MS should also offer this, end of the day youve paid for the console and its game and to have a broadband connection to then be charged again to play your games.

MS should claim its costs via the advertising of downloadable content.

also i think MS should also offer a gamer point scheme where unlocks or extra content can be downloaded free if youve got the points for that game, eg if you see theyres a cool addon you can download if youve collected all the gamer points for that game ect wouldnt that encourage gamers to keep playing???

on the other hand the gamer points are pointless and i dont get why people get excited "OHH WOW IVE GOT A MASSIVE GAMER SCORE" for what... then what can you do with it....NOTHING.

Same with sonys trophies. its pointless you gain nothing from them.

[maxRus]

I think Playing online should be free, If anything XBOX live should be 20.00 bucks a year at most. I think Most people think that you have to Pay for live to even to get online. Ive talked to a few people and when I tell them about the Silver membership they are like WHAT! I thought you had to Pay to even use LIVE. Then Im like NO you have to pay to Play against people. Which is pretty much all you doing.

Microsoft needs to give Gold members a Real reason to be a Gold member. Gold members should have cool stuff like having DLC that you can only get if you are a Gold member(which I think Ive seen some?). I think 50 bucks is pretty reasonable if you are playing multiplayer games and trying to be on leaderboards and contests and stuff.

Any way Im just blabbing now! Online Multiplayer should be free. Maybe a 1 time fee and thats it.

[msanchez]

I don't really care if it's only $1 a month, I'm not paying for online access. I've bought over 25 games of the psn, that should be more than enough to cover the bandwith I use up. I just honestly don't like to know that I have something else I need to pay for, besides I used to be an old school pc gamer, so there's just no way in hell that I would feel comfortable paying for online now when before when it was something novel I didn't.

I've only played online 3 or 4 times since I got my ps3. It's just something I don't do much, so whatever amount they want to charge me it's too much, but hey if they want to take away the possibility of me buying games online then they could go right ahead.... I'm fairly sure they'll be missing out way more than I.

Just about the only thing that I don't like about the PSN is that not all games have demo's, this is specially bad for the downloadable games I think, but aside from that the few times I played I didn't have any problems. Mind you twice I played over a DSL conection and no lag or anything that I could notice.

[lostn]

it is comforting to know that the entire network is monitored and policed so that anyone who has the guts to be racist, sexist, homophobic or show off their cash and prizes via the Xbox Live camera will feel the full wrath of the Ban Hammer.

That's a load of bull. Not long ago, a gamer's Live account was banned because his profile mentioned that he was homosexual. Now THAT is homophobic of MS to ban him. What hypocrisy!

[MadMax31]

I wouldn't pay for PSN in the subscription sense but i would accept a 'pro' tier system which included:

Exclusive access to new online features before they went to everyone.
A couple of free themes a month. (does anyone buy them on any network?)
Discounts on the PSN store or offers that lower prices to store prices.
An initiative to place headsets in each and every PS3 box sold.
Ability to turn off any advertising we want ingame or not.
Options for full game hosting control.
Pro should include the ability to upgrade from custom soundtracks to free music playback (could probably afford all the patent fees)
A giant castle for each subscriber free in playstation home (includes several knights to defend it, a moat and a drawbridge)

Last but not least a free aibo wife: charges via usb, does the housework and laughs every time you kill someone.

LOL, I completely agree with you, PSN is crap compared to Live, sure on the surface they look / provide almost the same, but Live has a lot of little details that make the difference (friendly, easier to find whatever you are looking for), IMHO, Live S/B $30 dlrs a year which it is ;) if you buy it from newegg of browse other places...

[dsav]

nope, even live should be free.

maybe someday, but i doubt it, ms is too greedy an they know fools will pay any price for live, maybe not all but i know alot of idiots would still pay for live even if it was double in price.

[faceless]

that article is retarded!

XBL is better than the PSN, but it's not because of any of the reasons stated.

i mean, he mentions stuff that isn't even out yet, like twitter, last.fm and facebook. yeah, the ps3 has a web browser, and it even works with pandora, which is better than last.fm!

then there's the mention of games that you can't play on the 360, such as call of duty 4... ok.

then there's all the talk of how easy it is and how there are less problems, when the truth is more first party sony games have dedicated servers than first party ms games, and 3rd party games use the same netcode on both consoles so how does one console have less problems? lol.

and the final stroke of genius, the talk about how there's policing n xbl... wait, did this guy miss the stories of people getting banned from the psn? check youtube, there's people making videos of their bans for both consoles. they're both policed!

xbl is better because of other things, like universal in-game cross-game voice chat and party chat that works with every game. being able to communicate so easily makes setting up online gaming so much easier than text.

xbl is better because of the 100% integrated universal invite system that works with every game, i mean you can even look at the last 100 players you bumped into on xbl and join a game they're playing, which is a great feature.

and most importantly, xbl is better because they have a larger player base. more people on xbl means more people playing a game you want to play. that's better for you, me and everyone else, especially if you aren't playing a top 10 game.

[beterweter]

ive never had any issues using my ps3 to play online, and think sony should not be greedy like MS charging its gamers to play a game online that youve baught.

I agree that online gaming and downloads should remain free and MS should also offer this, end of the day youve paid for the console and its game and to have a broadband connection to then be charged again to play your games.

MS should claim its costs via the advertising of downloadable content.

also i think MS should also offer a gamer point scheme where unlocks or extra content can be downloaded free if youve got the points for that game, eg if you see theyres a cool addon you can download if youve collected all the gamer points for that game ect wouldnt that encourage gamers to keep playing???

on the other hand the gamer points are pointless and i dont get why people get excited "OHH WOW IVE GOT A MASSIVE GAMER SCORE" for what... then what can you do with it....NOTHING.

Same with sonys trophies. its pointless you gain nothing from them.

advertising schould be left out of the service,don't mind paying,but want it add free.
last thing i need is to be fed with"mcdonalds cares for you,and so we fouded...blablabla"
"the institute of quick"
or that some sports woman or man "loves the pizza hut" "i go their all the time"

those are the 1st unskippable adds you will see,the giants of fast food.

and when you pop in a game and press A to start,

"first a word from our sponsor"

i can live with in game adds on walls,or charachters drinking pepsi,they arent disturbing,but don't let a good service go to waste because of adds.

we already get brainwashed trough tv enough.

[deftonesmx17]

Last night I was playing both consoles taking some things in while thinking about this post. Then it hit me; why the hell isn’t Live free and why am I crazy enough to be paying for it?

Apparently the only reason I am is because 90% of my friends have 360's and not PS3's so it’s the only way for me to game online with them.

And then I started to boil over with disgust for the XBL Gold service.

With all the advertisements all over every single tiny space of the 360 dashboard, why am I paying to play online? Isn’t Microsoft making enough money off these ads to let me play for free? At least when I'm on the PS3 the entire XMB isn’t chock-full of advertisements everywhere I look.

Cross-game chat can be done with Silver, even though you can't play online, you can still cross-game chat so obviously I'm not paying for that with my Gold subscription.

But isn’t M$ soon giving me access to twitter, last.fm, and facebook? I say who gives a ****; I could just hop onto those pages with my PS3's web browser or through Linux on my PS3. And lets be honest here; how many people seriously have internet, a router, and their console connected to said device and internet, but don’t have a computer.....

But I get exclusive access to demos before silver members. Yes you do, but be aware that I was able to download the Batman demo for example on my ps3 at that same damn time while silver members had to wait. WTF is that all about?

But online gaming with the PS3 is laggy compared to Live. To hell it is....I always buy FIFA for both consoles each year so I can play all my friends (even that 10% with PS3's). If one system is lagging with it so is the other. If they are lagging, it’s a problem with my internet and/or router at the time and no fault of the PSN/XBL service. Actually, sometimes it is the fault of the XBL service. M$ even gave me a couple free XBLA games due to their service being severely f*cked a couple of times for lengthy periods of time.

[tommo120]

psn is already far better than the laggy rip off live,psn looks far better too after the release of the 3.0 fw & you can even use dynamic themes now. ;)


the thread posted on "planet xbox360" is nothing more than a desperate cheap shot at the superier psn.

Heil Sony!

[ThreeDog]

LOL, I completely agree with you, PSN is crap compared to Live, sure on the surface they look / provide almost the same, but Live has a lot of little details that make the difference (friendly, easier to find whatever you are looking for), IMHO, Live S/B $30 dlrs a year which it is ;) if you buy it from newegg of browse other places...

I think you got me wrong im not in any way calling psn crap i just see room for improvement. In some ways its better than live in others its worse.

[Midnightkilla91]

Psn should be free its the only reason i bought a ps3 was because of the built in wifi and free online gaming i got a xbox 360 also have gold. i think every company should just do there own thing

[kneehighspy]

i don't understand alot of users thoughts that they already pay for their internet connection, so that should make everything that can be done via the internet free?

just because you pay a base fee to have internet access doesn't entitle anyone to everything for free.

hell i subscribe to qore (yeah i know) and you would think it would be advertiser free since it's a paid subscription, but it's not free of ads either.

i also pay a monthly fee for my usenet services, i don't feel just because i pay for internet, that i should get it for free. sure, my internet sub comes with a free usenet server access, but it's horrible, so i pay for one that's much better.

not everything is free, nor should it be.

[Neglefarot]

and i tougth that there was no IDIOTS playing videogames......:rolleyes:

[kcvfr400]

i don't understand alot of users thoughts that they already pay for their internet connection, so that should make everything that can be done via the internet free?

just because you pay a base fee to have internet access doesn't entitle anyone to everything for free.

hell i subscribe to qore (yeah i know) and you would think it would be advertiser free since it's a paid subscription, but it's not free of ads either.

i also pay a monthly fee for my usenet services, i don't feel just because i pay for internet, that i should get it for free. sure, my internet sub comes with a free usenet server access, but it's horrible, so i pay for one that's much better.

not everything is free, nor should it be.

But with gaming you have already paid for the game which on the box boasts of these online features that are often a big part of the game now. So why should any of us then pay again to use those features we have already paid for in purchasing the game.

[QrafTee]

Lose a lot of customers in the process. I think it's a bad trade off. I'll sell the PS3 as fast I did my 360 if Sony pulls this ****.

[Cue]

It shouldn't make everything done via the internet free but it shouldn't start charging for things that are already free just because it's on a given hardware. For example paying for the servers on live for faster downloading is fine its alot like rapidshare (but at least rapidshare has a free option too) because they have to pay for the servers but when you play a p2p game why do you have to pay when all you are doing is using your own internet connection the "service" provided is minimal.

it's an actual service which costs the person who is providing you with this service hence the service charge but when all they are doing is providing you with software to in a sense unlock the ability of your own hardware to use things that are already free there is absolutely no need for a subscription.

subscription based Live to use subscription based Netflix, subscription based p2p, subscription based facebook, subscription based Twitter, ads inside NXE to regulate further income...entertainment has changed. The age of free stuff, has become the age of subscription all in the name of profit and he who gains profit, controls history.

it is complete BS and people should rightly complain instead of taking it lying down because these aren't things that require your money to run they have been running free on everything else.
it's just locking the hardware which you already paid for from accessing free "services" to try and justify them charging you a subscription fee.

[beterweter]

. So why should any of us then pay again to use those features we have already paid for in purchasing the game.

you obviously paid for the game,and not the online service that is used for those features.
just because you paid for the game and own it doesnt mean you could have acces to the live service.(you could go with xlink kai if you dont' like it,its free and it works great)
your just seeing it wrong...
the live feature is represented as an another service,
its a service that will always be maintaind by MS and not by the publishers.
some are different,but then its the publishers choice.
live will never be free because of this.
xbox360 or xbox are the consoles,live is the service they use.
its split up.

[kcvfr400]

you obviously paid for the game,and not the online service that is used for those features.
just because you paid for the game and own it doesnt mean you could have acces to the live service.(you could go with xlink kai if you dont' like it,its free and it works great)
your just seeing it wrong...
the live feature is represented as an another service,
its a service that will always be maintaind by MS and not by the publishers.
some are different,but then its the publishers choice.
live will never be free because of this.
xbox360 or xbox are the consoles,live is the service they use.
its split up.

You may think I am seeing it wrong but since games have become so short in single player and we are not seeing a price drop to match and all over the box is the boast of online play then I feel right in expecting that as part of my purchase.

I feel you are deflecting again in looking to servers and details to defend live when I am keeping it at the simplest of levels of I buy a game and do not wish to pay for features in that game on the disc I buy. Its no different than paid dlc already on the disc, just the wrong direction to take gaming.

[beterweter]

It shouldn't make everything done via the internet free but it shouldn't start charging for things that are already free just because it's on a given hardware. For example paying for the servers on live for faster downloading is fine its alot like rapidshare (but at least rapidshare has a free option too) because they have to pay for the servers but when you play a p2p game why do you have to pay when all you are doing is using your own internet connection the "service" provided is minimal.

it's an actual service which costs the person who is providing you with this service hence the service charge but when all they are doing is providing you with software to in a sense unlock the ability of your own hardware to use things that are already free there is absolutely no need for a subscription.

subscription based Live to use subscription based Netflix, subscription based p2p, subscription based facebook, subscription based Twitter, ads inside NXE to regulate further income...entertainment has changed. The age of free stuff, has become the age of subscription all in the name of profit and he who gains profit, controls history.

it is complete BS and people should rightly complain instead of taking it lying down because these aren't things that require your money to run they have been running free on everything else.
it's just locking the hardware which you already paid for from accessing free "services" to try and justify them charging you a subscription fee.

i agree with you that twitter and facebook should be free,but live is not just a p2p service as you state and you know it.
the live network is continiusly scanned for cheaters.
theirs a serious loophole when it comes to firmware and at the moment it s decently stealted,but they shure as hell can detect irregularities in your games.

adds inside nxe?what does ps home do?
now that litarilly runs on adds...

dont now what your doing here anyway,talking about how you have to pay for live and you stated quite a few time you don't even own a 360...
so how does this all affect you?


You may think I am seeing it wrong but since games have become so short in single player and we are not seeing a price drop to match and all over the box is the boast of online play then I feel right in expecting that as part of my purchase.

I feel you are deflecting again in looking to servers and details to defend live when I am keeping it at the simplest of levels of I buy a game and do not wish to pay for features in that game on the disc I buy. Its no different than paid dlc already on the disc, just the wrong direction to take gaming.

pricedrop?why?becuase you have to pay for live...
it gets "lighter" for the developer ,but it doesnt make your games cheaper...
expect another gameprice increase for the next gen games,seems more like it...

so lets not deflect,you have your point, you choose not to pay for live,we won't miss someone who isnt there...
but for someone who is so judgmental on pricing and claims to own a 360,you do quite honestly not to much about it then just rant over it.

you can play over internet...xlink kai...vive la revolution...
played with it for a few years before live cards where for sale.
chatting works,it all works.

protest and take everyone with you to kai.
and for the record,i mean it i dont say it to bring you down.

just saying their is an alternative...

[kneehighspy]

i agree with you that twitter and facebook should be free,but live is not just a p2p service as you state and you know it.
the live network is continiusly scanned for cheaters.
theirs a serious loophole when it comes to firmware and at the moment it s decently stealted,but they shure as hell can detect irregularities in your games.

adds inside nxe?what does ps home do?
now that litarilly runs on adds...

dont now what your doing here anyway,talking about how you have to pay for live and you stated quite a few time you don't even own a 360...
so how does this all affect you?



pricedrop?why?becuase you have to pay for live...
it gets "lighter" for the developer ,but it doesnt make your games cheaper...
expect another gameprice increase for the next gen games,seems more like it...

so lets not deflect,you have your point, you choose not to pay for live,we won't miss someone who isnt there...
but for someone who is so judgmental on pricing and claims to own a 360,you do quite honestly not to much about it then just rant over it.

you can play over internet...xlink kai...vive la revolution...
played with it for a few years before live cards where for sale.
chatting works,it all works.

protest and take everyone with you to kai.
and for the record,i mean it i dont say it to bring you down.

just saying their is an alternative...


gotta say, well spoken. it's just hard to change each individuals opinion, everyone is dead set that their opinion is correct.

i'm willing to pay for services that i use like usenet, live or even qore. just by me purchasing a game that say's it 'offers' multiplayer, doesn't mean if you have an internet connection then multiplayer is free.

but again, well spoken.

[deftonesmx17]

You may think I am seeing it wrong but since games have become so short in single player and we are not seeing a price drop to match and all over the box is the boast of online play then I feel right in expecting that as part of my purchase.


I am so sick of hereing people state how short single player games are now because its the most inaccurate statement. I'm pretty damn sure I could beat most non-RPG NES and SNES games in less than two to three hours. Yet people whine that modern non-RPG games only have 6-12 hours of gameplay and are too short. Holy **** people thats 3-4 times longer than older games.

As for price, you must be too young to remember because the price of games has not gone up so there is no need for a pricedrop to match your misinformation that modern games are shorter. Am I the only one who remembers paying $65-70 for Goldeneye on the N64. If you adjust that for inflation it would cost ~$90 dollars today. If anything the price of games has either gone down or stayed roughly the same. Lets even take another example. Final Fantasy VII on the PSX was $45-49 when it was released. Adjust that for todays inflation and you're looking at ~$61.....about the exact same price of a game today. Lets also not forget Zelda: OoT on N64 was $79.99 at release....I dont even need to adjust that for inflation to prove my point.

Even the consoles are not really anymore expensive than they used to be; the NES in 1985 was $199.99, adjust for todays inflation and you're looking at ~$396, about the same price as the Xbox 360 pro when it launched. The Playstation in 1995 was $299.99, adjusted for today equals ~$418.

[kcvfr400]

i agree with you that twitter and facebook should be free,but live is not just a p2p service as you state and you know it.
the live network is continiusly scanned for cheaters.
theirs a serious loophole when it comes to firmware and at the moment it s decently stealted,but they shure as hell can detect irregularities in your games.

adds inside nxe?what does ps home do?
now that litarilly runs on adds...

dont now what your doing here anyway,talking about how you have to pay for live and you stated quite a few time you don't even own a 360...
so how does this all affect you?



pricedrop?why?becuase you have to pay for live...
it gets "lighter" for the developer ,but it doesnt make your games cheaper...
expect another gameprice increase for the next gen games,seems more like it...

so lets not deflect,you have your point, you choose not to pay for live,we won't miss someone who isnt there...
but for someone who is so judgmental on pricing and claims to own a 360,you do quite honestly not to much about it then just rant over it.

you can play over internet...xlink kai...vive la revolution...
played with it for a few years before live cards where for sale.
chatting works,it all works.

protest and take everyone with you to kai.
and for the record,i mean it i dont say it to bring you down.

just saying their is an alternative...

Just in future don't bother quoting or answering me as you clearly ignore my point or side step to something else. Just like the whole exclusive nonsense where you ended up argueing against yourself. Clearly your not up for a debate and more into take your point of view or nothing. Makes it pointless to answer you. Plus your previous rude insults towards my mother in the past and calling me a liar just say enough about you not to waste my time. Thoug hthen again now your again suggesting I do not own a 360 like you did that I did not own a atari 2600. So lets ignore each other.

[kcvfr400]

I am so sick of hereing people state how short single player games are now because its the most inaccurate statement. I'm pretty damn sure I could beat most non-RPG NES and SNES games in less than two to three hours. Yet people whine that modern non-RPG games only have 6-12 hours of gameplay and are too short. Holy **** people thats 3-4 times longer than older games.

As for price, you must be too young to remember because the price of games has not gone up so there is no need for a pricedrop to match your misonformation that modern games are shorter.. Am I the only one who remembers paying $65-70 for Goldeneye on the N64. If you adjust that for inflation it would cost ~$90 dollars today. If anything the price of games has either gone down or stayed roughly the same. Lets even take another example. Final Fantasy VII on the PSX was $45-49 when it was released. Adjust that for todays inflation and you're looking at ~$61.....about the exact same price of a game today. Lets also not forget Zelda: OoT on N64 was $79.99 at release....I dont even need to adjust that for inflation to prove my point.

Even the consoles are not really anymore expensive than they used to be; the NES in 1985 was $199.99, adjust for todays inflation and you're looking at ~$396, about the same price as the Xbox 360 pro when it launched. The Playstation in 1995 was $299.99, adjusted for today equals ~$418. To make matters worse, I also had to go out and buy a memory card for that playstation to save my games as where my 360 came with a game storage device in the box that wasnt going to run out of space after saving 3-5 games.

No not too young a I remember the rip off pricing of streetfighter 2 on snes in the uk and alot more in the probably 28 yrs I have been gaming. But still does not take away from the point that I do not wish to pay twice for something I purchase no matter what the cost. Your use of inflation is pointless too this as its not just games that have become better value under your inflation correction. All forms of things from electricals too furniture to cars have become cheaper if you go by inflation from prices say in 1985. So why should we except less for more at this time when everything else gives you more for less like films, music etc.

Stop being pedantic there are obviously some games that are not short but a general trend of far short games and less single playe to make way for online multi player is previlante for anyone to see.

You or anyone else have given no reason why psn should become subs that is so far of value for the money. It just seems you accept in a sort of lemming way what will be will be.

And I am clearly not alone in this thread to feel this way.

[DavGerm4]

Ok the people that are saying that the 360 live sucks are obviously PS3 fans, where as the ones saying they can't connect to a Killzone game are 360 fans! I've played both, and 360 live is great with the private parties and what not. But there really isn't anything wrong with PSN. It's nice that it's free, and I get in games with people all the time on Killzone 2, and never had issues. Maybe once or twice a disconnect from the host, but that was it!

But hearing someone on a 360 forum saying that they should charge for PSN, obviously sounds like he's jealous that PS3 users can play online for free, and 360 you have to pay.

[deftonesmx17]

Your use of inflation is pointless too this as its not just games that have become better value under your inflation correction.
Are you even aware that you have just contradicted yourself? First you say they are less of a value and their price should reflect that, but now you are saying they are of better value because they are cheaper than they used to be. Jesus, at least keep your own posts in line.



You or anyone else have given no reason why psn should become subs that is so far of value for the money. It just seems you accept in a sort of lemming way what will be will be.
Have you read my previous posts in this thread? I agree that PSN should stay free and its ridiculous that Live costs money. Shall I direct link you to my posts?

[kcvfr400]

Are you even aware that you have just contradicted yourself? First you say they are less of a value and their price should reflect that, but now you are saying they are of better value because they are cheaper than they used to be. Jesus, at least keep your own posts in line.


Have you read my previous posts in this thread? I agree that PSN should stay free and its ridiculous that Live costs money. Shall I direct link you to my posts?

Not contradicting myself as I am saying I do not want to see less for the money which is in essence a price rise by another route or wish to pay for a game then pay again to use part of it which in essence is another price increase that will only increase if we let it happen now by accepting it.

I can see now that your roughly thinking the same as me but you post that I replied too suggested otherwise and happy to pay.

And no I haven't read or maybe digested and linked your previous post to this one. I was simply taking the post on face value.

[Cue]

i agree with you that twitter and facebook should be free,but live is not just a p2p service as you state and you know it.
the live network is continiusly scanned for cheaters.
theirs a serious loophole when it comes to firmware and at the moment it s decently stealted,but they shure as hell can detect irregularities in your games.

adds inside nxe?what does ps home do?
now that litarilly runs on adds...

dont now what your doing here anyway,talking about how you have to pay for live and you stated quite a few time you don't even own a 360...
so how does this all affect you?


No it's p2p. "constantly scanned for cheaters" I bet you bought that from major nelson the truth is they are reported just like you can report them on any other network any anti cheat mechanism is likely not server side but game based for a p2p (player hosted) game and the majority of 360 games are p2p. lets see, which popular online game should we look at

COD4
http://cod4boards.com/cod4-xbox-360/122315-horrible-xbox-live-cheater-hacker.html
http://cod4boards.com/cod4-xbox-360/95415-speed-virus.html

what about L4D
http://www.videogamer.com/news/left_4_dead_360_update_stops_cheaters.html

Halo 3 maybe?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLVrcnmvlcs

don't turn this into another unrelated rant where your facts are all wrong again I never said there are no ads in home, I thought you liked relevant ads anyway. I don't even like the "whats new" on the XMB but it's still a milder form of advertising for the free service compared to the one you pay for. So before you go off on one of your rants again, know this, I never said I liked the advertising on either system but if I was paying for PSN/Home I would hate the fact that it includes ads more so if I were paying for Live, ads would piss me off more than they already do.

I'm not trying to do anything (unless you were talking about the MGS4 reference, then I'll thank you for noticing). I made a point, a point which you happened to agree with then oddly ask me what I'm trying to do. Look on the top left of the grey box of this thread, what do you see? PS3 right? it affects me because if enough muppets like Andrew Galbraith from xboxplanet decide that paying for usually free sh*t is cool on xbox live and that Sony should follow; Sony just might listen so I'm here to voice my opinion against such a thing, on a PS3 thread no doubt.

People keep bringing up usenet. You see there is a reason usenet and rapidshare is not free (even then they give you some functionality with the free version) and bit-torrent is free, here is why:

bitorrent is p2p using your ISP your hardware and minimal bandwidth to connect to tracker servers so that people can find each-other.
Usenet and Rapidshare use servers and the majority of the data goes to and from their servers this bandwidth and the servers cost money to keep running.

Lets flip this around, ask somebody if they would pay for bittorrent if usenet and rapidshare servers were free and the majority of people would tell you to f*ck off. Do the same with Live and it's all game.

I'm pointing out that in my opinion paying for p2p is bull since the actual "service" you would be paying for is the bittorent tracker. in this analogy the tracker is the Live matchmaking servers which works in much the same way (so that users can find each-other). If you want to pay for it I never told you not to I said that IMO this service should be free and that adding and charging for more free sh*t (at least, free on everything else except the 360) does not make the service more worthwhile to me and I would hope others too.

Now I'm going to ask you the same: what are you trying to do? how has my opinion affected you. If for some reason it offended you in any way then ignore it.

[Cue]

I am so sick of hereing people state how short single player games are now because its the most inaccurate statement. I'm pretty damn sure I could beat most non-RPG NES and SNES games in less than two to three hours. Yet people whine that modern non-RPG games only have 6-12 hours of gameplay and are too short. Holy **** people thats 3-4 times longer than older games.

As for price, you must be too young to remember because the price of games has not gone up so there is no need for a pricedrop to match your misinformation that modern games are shorter. Am I the only one who remembers paying $65-70 for Goldeneye on the N64. If you adjust that for inflation it would cost ~$90 dollars today. If anything the price of games has either gone down or stayed roughly the same. Lets even take another example. Final Fantasy VII on the PSX was $45-49 when it was released. Adjust that for todays inflation and you're looking at ~$61.....about the exact same price of a game today. Lets also not forget Zelda: OoT on N64 was $79.99 at release....I dont even need to adjust that for inflation to prove my point.

Even the consoles are not really anymore expensive than they used to be; the NES in 1985 was $199.99, adjust for todays inflation and you're looking at ~$396, about the same price as the Xbox 360 pro when it launched. The Playstation in 1995 was $299.99, adjusted for today equals ~$418.

I remember I paid, I think £50 for Aladdin on the SNES completed it that night and went and exchanged it for MotoGP the next day (told the clerk I bought the wrong game for my brothers birthday).

[beterweter]

Just in future don't bother quoting or answering me as you clearly ignore my point or side step to something else. Just like the whole exclusive nonsense where you ended up argueing against yourself. Clearly your not up for a debate and more into take your point of view or nothing. Makes it pointless to answer you. Plus your previous rude insults towards my mother in the past and calling me a liar just say enough about you not to waste my time. Thoug hthen again now your again suggesting I do not own a 360 like you did that I did not own a atari 2600. So lets ignore each other.

so you will not be answering my quote...means i'm touching something.
ignoring is not on my list sorry.

your points arent relevant to the topic in anyway,but i still quote them.
i think the topic goes
Opinion: Sony should charge for PSN to make it better like LIVE


you have yet again managed to make it and anti xbox-live topic,so lets finish whats you started...

the answer you seek to this question


But with gaming you have already paid for the game which on the box boasts of these online features that are often a big part of the game now. So why should any of us then pay again to use those features we have already paid for in purchasing the game.

is very simple.

because live is the service you use to play your games with just like steam,but paid for.
and the games are your games.

you can still play your game off-line if you choose to,and you cna play for free if you like.

you somehow think i am deflecting you here,but i don't see where...i think its a pretty firm,clear and logic answer to a question you ask yourself.

whats to deflect?its the service you pay for...

then your point is that just the games aspect of games is too short these day(wich i also have some troubles with,don't feel the same about that,but we where talking about the live answer to your question)


I feel you are deflecting again in looking to servers and details to defend live when I am keeping it at the simplest of levels of I buy a game and do not wish to pay for features in that game on the disc I buy. Its no different than paid dlc already on the disc, just the wrong direction to take gaming.

again no deflecting,you have your games and you have the live service.
your online service isnt used when playing offline so why is it like paid dlc already on the disc?
you can play them local if you do not wich to play them online...
again its your choice.

you can sit grumpy all day for 4 years already and watch your 360's white colour turn into smoke-brown but thats not going to get you on xboxlive for free...

you join or you don't.

now where do i ignore your point?

you suffer from a clear case of selective reading and ignorance.

COD4
http://cod4boards.com/cod4-xbox-360/...er-hacker.html

what about L4D
http://www.videogamer.com/news/left_..._cheaters.html

Halo 3 maybe?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLVrcnmvlcs

what are you trying to show here?:p

halo cheaters get caucht and banned all the time,sure they can go for a little while,but they cant keep it up...
system is continiously scanning for cheaters and they get band or accounts deleted.

fot the left 4 dead cheating,that was with a game glitch,thats why valve themselfs patched it,it been known for quite awhile and was even posted on maxconsole at the time.

nice to bring up the cod 4 hackers but if you check the forums its mostly about the ps3 version.
360 version is patched,ps3 not


don't turn this into another unrelated rant where your facts are all wrong again I never said there are no ads in home, I thought you liked relevant ads anyway. I don't even like the "whats new" on the XMB but it's still a milder form of advertising for the free service compared to the one you pay for. So before you go off on one of your rants again, know this, I never said I liked the advertising on either system but if I was paying for PSN/Home I would hate it even more so if I were paying for Live ads would piss me off more than they already do.

i really don't see what i'm doing wrong here,you stated your opinion and i stated mine,and at the and of it i asked you a question.


I'm not trying to do anything (unless you were talking about the MGS4 reference, then I'll thank you for noticing). I made a point, a point which you happened to agree with then oddly ask me what I'm trying to do. Look on the top left of the grey box of this thread, what do you see? PS3 right? it affects me because if enough muppets like Andrew Galbraith from xboxplanet decide that paying for usually free sh*t is cool on xbox live and that Sony should follow. Sony just might listen so I'm here to voice my opinion against such a thing, on a PS3 thread no doubt.

i will ask you again,beware, this is a very simple question...
the last part is more important...


my question,
dont now what your doing here anyway,talking about how you have to pay for live and you stated quite a few time you don't even own a 360...
so how does this all affect you?


bitorrent is p2p using your ISP your hardware and minimal bandwidth to connect to tracker servers so that people can find each-other.
Usenet and Rapidshare use servers and the majority of the data goes to and from their servers this bandwidth and the servers cost money to keep running.

Lets flip this around, ask somebody if they would pay for bittorrent when usenet and rapidshare servers are free and the majority of people would tell you to f*ck off. Do the same with Live and it's all game.

I'm pointing out that in my opinion paying for p2p is bull since the actual "service" you would be paying for is the bittorent tracker. in this analogy the tracker is the Live matchmaking servers which works in much the same way (so that users can find each-other). If you want to pay for it I never told you not to I said that IMO this service should be free and that adding and charging for more free sh*t (at least, free on everything else except the 360) does not make the service more worthwhile to me and I would hope others too.


what i see you pointing out here is again saying that the live service is just a p2p network.
it is not just a p2p network and all the things you just said arent even relevant.
its their choice to use the online gaming part to pay for server maintainance.
you only want to see the gaming aspect,but theres more to it than just the gaming.
gold members pay for the silver service memebers 2.

want to play free online,don't buy a 360 and play your games on a pc.
wait...you already do that.

as you keep fighting for your right here i have a feeling you want to get a 360 and join live...


Now I'm going to ask you the same: what are you trying to do? how has my opinion affected you. If for some reason it offended you in any way then ignore it.

i'm not trying to do anything other here then show your ranting on for nothing really.
over a service you don't use on a console you don't have,so why the fuzz?:rolleyes:

o right,you read alot...

[Cue]

what are you trying to show here?:p

fot the left 4 dead cheating,that was with a game glitch,thats why valve themselfs patched it,it been known for quite awhile and was even posted on maxconsole at the time.

nice to bring up the cod 4 hackers but if you check the forums its mostly about the ps3 version.
360 version is patched,ps3 not


first off quote me properly because it gets confusing with a wall of text which also refers to someone else's post. second your so full of sh*t and excuses I'm not even going to bother with you. Those threads mention 360 over and over again not PS3 once (not saying it doesn't exist on ps3 but those threads clearly say 360) it's even under COD-360. post the real links I gave you, in case you missed it the first time notice the topic heading "360" notice in the post it says several times "360":

http://cod4boards.com/cod4-xbox-360/122315-horrible-xbox-live-cheater-hacker.html
http://cod4boards.com/cod4-xbox-360/95415-speed-virus.html

You keep thinking you're paying major nelson to "scan live for the cheaters and HaxorZ" instead of the game developers patching their games and people grief reporting other users to stop cheating on all consoles. if it makes you happy, keep thinking it.

The PS3 version for the flying hack has been patched, I have the game and I know it has, the speed virus I've not heard of on the ps3 since it's some kind of 360 registry hack. if you want to keep believing the other flying hack hasn't been patched on the ps3 and in your mind that's a "1up" for 360 and paying for live, good for you.

Actually my ranting serves more of a purpose than you joining in with your usual irrelevant PS3vs360 bullsh*t my ranting is to show that not everyone is fooled by this so Sony better think twice before adopting the same strategy. that's what the thread is about in case you missed that too.

[beterweter]

first off quote me properly because it gets confusing with a wall of text which also refers to someone else's post. second your so full of sh*t and excuses I'm not even going to bother with you. Those threads mention 360 over and over again not PS3 once (not saying it doesn't exist on ps3 but those threads clearly say 360) it's even under COD-360. post the real links I gave you, in case you missed it the first time notice the topic heading "360" notice in the post it says several times "360":

http://cod4boards.com/cod4-xbox-360/122315-horrible-xbox-live-cheater-hacker.html
http://cod4boards.com/cod4-xbox-360/95415-speed-virus.html

You keep thinking your paying major nelson to "scan live for the cheaters and HaxorZ" instead of the game developers patching their games and people grief reporting other users to stop cheating on all consoles. if it makes you happy, keep thinking it.

The PS3 version for the flying hack has been patched, I have the game and I know it has, the speed virus I've not heard of on the ps3 since it's some kind of 360 registry hack. if you want to keep believing the other flying hack hasn't been patched on the ps3 and in your mind that's a "1up" for 360 and paying for live, good for you.

Actually my ranting serves more of a purpose than you joining in with your usual irrelevant PS3vs360 bullsh*t my ranting is to show that not everyone is fooled by this so Sony better think twice before adopting the same strategy. that's what the thread is about in case you missed that too.

so i made a quoting mistake,get over it,you see its yours.o

your so full ot ****,showing me one trad first and then add another later.
your first tread is a tread that got closed down after the first post,then reffering to another tread where its very quickly brought up that consistant problems are on ps3 and that the live version was patched.
notice in the posts that it goes to ps3 very quickly,and contnues to do so...
mistakes can be made in games and this is clearly a game coding problem again.they do not in anyway change their disc layout to cheat so yes its up to the developers to patch it.

has nothing to do with the live security.

your second one was added afterwards,so nice try.
regitry hack,yeah,patched quicky,check.


You keep thinking your paying major nelson to "scan live for the cheaters and HaxorZ" instead of the game developers patching their games and people grief reporting other users to stop cheating on all consoles. if it makes you happy, keep thinking it.

nope i know i pay for the live service,and it stands for alot more then just online gaming

your just always neglecting that live does other things by saying its only a p2p network and not mentioning anything else to give people the impression that live really does nothing.

i said before,i don't mind you saying stuff,but you leave sh#t out just to try and take it down so you can justify what your saying.

but i thank you to at least answer on 1 of my quotes:p
seems your selectively ignoring my other points,and not answering my 1000€ question.

building up on other points you just put in to try and snag someone,then just ignoring where this whole conversation started isnt very nice now is it.

its however very easy to just say that your not going to answer my quotes anymore deu to some stuff you added to draw the attention away.

so now my simple question still stands,but i will be moer clear as you just don't seem to understand it...

dont now what your doing here anyway,talking about how you have to pay for live and you stated quite a few time you don't even own a 360...
so how does this all affect you?
as to why does this affect you in anyway as non xbox 360 owner or non xboxlive user.
(and i am refferring to your 1st 2 posts on this tread,and my 1st comment)
why do you have to contnue on these things if you really have no intension off getting a 360 as you already stated a few times,over and over...?
does this affect your wallet in anyway?
who do you stand for?who are we?

aah yes the non xboxlive users who have no intention of getting a 360 cause you can get the games on pc.

[Cue]

so i made a quoting mistake,get over it,you see its yours.o

your so full ot ****,showing me one trad first and then add another later.
your first tread is a tread that got closed down after the first post,then reffering to another tread where its very quickly brought up that consistant problems are on ps3 and that the live version was patched.
notice in the posts that it goes to ps3 very quickly,and contnues to do so...
mistakes can be made in games and this is clearly a game coding problem again.they do not in anyway change their disc layout to cheat so yes its up to the developers to patch it.

has nothing to do with the live security.

your second one was added afterwards,so nice try.
regitry hack,yeah,patched quicky,check.



nope i know i pay for the live service,and it stands for alot more then just online gaming

your just always neglecting that live does other things by saying its only a p2p network and not mentioning anything else to give people the impression that live really does nothing.

i said before,i don't mind you saying stuff,but you leave sh#t out just to try and take it down so you can justify what your saying.

but i thank you to at least answer on 1 of my quotes:p
seems your selectively ignoring my other points,and not answering my 1000€ question.

building up on other points you just put in to try and snag someone,then just ignoring where this whole conversation started isnt very nice now is it.

its however very easy to just say that your not going to answer my quotes anymore deu to some stuff you added to draw the attention away.

so now my simple question still stands,but i will be moer clear as you just don't seem to understand it...

dont now what your doing here anyway,talking about how you have to pay for live and you stated quite a few time you don't even own a 360...
so how does this all affect you?
as to why does this affect you in anyway as non xbox 360 owner or non xboxlive user.
(and i am refferring to your 1st 2 posts on this tread,and my 1st comment)
why do you have to contnue on these things if you really have no intension off getting a 360 as you already stated a few times,over and over...?
does this affect your wallet in anyway?
who do you stand for?who are we?

aah yes the non xboxlive users who have no intention of getting a 360 cause you can get the games on pc.

Yes the thread closed because it was being discussed already this doesn't take away from the fact that 360 cheaters aren't stopped on Live by some "scanning" for cheaters devs patch the exploits and these same patches are released for the PS3.
I never said live is nothing more than online gaming but it stops people from doing exactly that by charging for what is usually free I specifically said p2p gaming should be free and it is everywhere except Live, facebook should be free and it is everywhere except live, twitter should be free and it is everywhere except live, last.fm should be free and it is everywhere except...you get the drift I also said that I hate ads. You agreed with most of these points then mentioned another irrelevant incorrect fact that live is "scanned for cheaters" I said no it isn't and gave you the truth about cheaters instead. Then you said that Home has ads to to which I said right and I hate them ads too but I'll hate them even more if I were paying. Then you had the cheek to ask me what this has to do with me to which I replied : this is about bringing a subscription to a free service which I use and that Andrew's suggestion that all this usually free sh*t that I can already do on my PS3 is what makes Live worth paying is completely asinine.
Now your repeating the same question again so I will answer again
The free services that I can already get on my ps3 is no reason for there to be a charge for the PSN just because this muppet pays for it on Live. I voiced my opinion like everybody else. voicing my opinion even serves a purpose that affects me positively unlike your post which only tries to justify why you should continue paying for usually free stuff on Live which I would have though is negative but ok; in the unlikely event that some Sony marketing tw*t reads these threads about peoples opinions he/she may stumble on my little post where I say over and over again (since you keep asking) "I'll never pay a subscription because of free services just because this muppet Andrews does"

end of discussion and no I don't end discussions to ignore your points I end them to keep my sanity because you never seem to understand anything and play like a broken record so goodbye.

[phiber_optik]

if sony started online gamin psn as free, it should be free, but if were talking about sony start to charge in order to improve online gaming experience. i dont mind paying if the returns are good. check xbox live, its well maintain and you cant experience slow downloads or lags when playing online. those subscriptions of xbox live is whats making m$ push the limit and start adding features in their online gaming features. if it were not for those subscriptions, live would have been like psn that everyone hate or like.

like i said earlier, if sony wants to add subscription to psn to improve, i wont mind payin a extra like im doin with live, but if sony just want to con us, pay this subscription because well try to improve wo seeing them doing. screw them.

as for which one online gaming experience is best... they got their own ups and downs. frankly, you cant really compare both or say one is the best because one is free and the one is not. alot people will say... the free is the best because you aint payin for nothing. like we all do in internet.. free movies, musics, apps... who doesnt want free?

[beterweter]

Yes the thread closed because it was being discussed already this doesn't take away from the fact that 360 cheaters aren't stopped on Live by some "scanning" for cheaters devs patch the exploits and these same patches are released for the PS3.
I never said live is nothing more than online gaming but it stops people from doing exactly that by charging for what is usually free I specifically said p2p gaming should be free and it is everywhere except Live, facebook should be free and it is everywhere except live, twitter should be free and it is everywhere except live, last.fm should be free and it is everywhere except...you get the drift I also said that I hate ads. You agreed with most of these points then mentioned another irrelevant incorrect fact that live is "scanned for cheaters" I said no it isn't and gave you the truth about cheaters instead. Then you said that Home has ads to to which I said right and I hate them ads too but I'll hate them even more if I were paying. Then you had the cheek to ask me what this has to do with me to which I replied : this is about bringing a subscription to a free service which I use and that Andrew's suggestion that all this usually free sh*t that I can already do on my PS3 is what makes Live worth paying is completely asinine.
Now your repeating the same question again so I will answer again
The free services that I can already get on my ps3 is no reason for there to be a charge for the PSN just because this muppet pays for it on Live. I voiced my opinion like everybody else. voicing my opinion even serves a purpose that affects me positively unlike your post which only tries to justify why you should continue paying for usually free stuff on Live which I would have though is negative but ok; in the unlikely event that some Sony marketing tw*t reads these threads about peoples opinions he/she may stumble on my little post where I say over and over again (since you keep asking) "I'll never pay a subscription because of free services just because this muppet Andrews does"

end of discussion and no I don't end discussions to ignore your points I end them to keep my sanity because you never seem to understand anything and play like a broken record so goodbye.

tread opened.

you just blatantly say that live doesnt get scanned for cheaters,yet cheaters get banned and accounts deleted all the time.
how do you think this happens?cuase someone reports them,so they will quickly ban someones cuase he shouts "cheater" to another.

simple answer...no...

its like your first cod4 link,you send a link from a guy who made a post,with no proof at all,he says cheater and you send it to me as quoted truth,yet if you go to the actual tread you see a whole different situation.

most cheating happens trough gamesave cheating and gets detected rather quick.
what i told you on the aother hand is that you can't change your disc layout in anyway or it will get you detected.
now please say this is not true:rolleyes:
why does this get immediatly detected?cuase its scanned.
then you brought up,but its scanned trough p2p,wich is a rather real lame excuse again just to say no security messures are taken and servers arent needed for live.

now lets rewind a sec here.


It shouldn't make everything done via the internet free but it shouldn't start charging for things that are already free just because it's on a given hardware. For example paying for the servers on live for faster downloading is fine its alot like rapidshare (but at least rapidshare has a free option too) because they have to pay for the servers but when you play a p2p game why do you have to pay when all you are doing is using your own internet connection the "service" provided is minimal.


this leads nowhere in anyway,nor does it justify you saying live needs to be free,other than just attacking the live service with very little reason.

your little theory here already crummbles when you say connectionspeed limitations on xbox live for free users.
so when a silver user downloads a game from games on demand that is 6gig,or even just 3 gig,then it should take him 2 to 5 days to download a game he wants to play.
on top of that he would have the privelige to get lag on the games he plays,making him not want to come back?

with this part i actually agree for some parts you say,mainly about twitter netflix and facebook,


it's an actual service which costs the person who is providing you with this service hence the service charge but when all they are doing is providing you with software to in a sense unlock the ability of your own hardware to use things that are already free there is absolutely no need for a subscription.

subscription based Live to use subscription based Netflix, subscription based p2p, subscription based facebook, subscription based Twitter, ads inside NXE to regulate further income...entertainment has changed. The age of free stuff, has become the age of subscription all in the name of profit and he who gains profit, controls history.

it is complete BS and people should rightly complain instead of taking it lying down because these aren't things that require your money to run they have been running free on everything else.
it's just locking the hardware which you already paid for from accessing free "services" to try and justify them charging you a subscription fee.


i do not see however why you say subscription based twitter and facebook,you can use your accounts on your pc and ps3 for free if you like,its not twitter or facebook that needs to be a paid for to use.
they just limit you on using it on your xbox360 in the silver service.
for this last one i agree with you that twitter,facebook needs to be free.

and like i said,i have no experiance whatsoever with netflix,so i won't be judging that.


Now your repeating the same question again so I will answer again
The free services that I can already get on my ps3 is no reason for there to be a charge for the PSN just because this muppet pays for it on Live. I voiced my opinion like everybody else. voicing my opinion even serves a purpose that affects me positively unlike your post which only tries to justify why you should continue paying for usually free stuff on Live which I would have though is negative but ok; in the unlikely event that some Sony marketing tw*t reads these threads about peoples opinions he/she may stumble on my little post where I say over and over again (since you keep asking) "I'll never pay a subscription because of free services just because this muppet Andrews does"

seems to me your justifiing why not to pay for a service you dont want to use anyway.
you are in no way obligated to use the service,but you come here to say people need to take action against it:p


it is complete BS and people should rightly complain instead of taking it lying down because these aren't things that require your money to run they have been running free on everything else.
it's just locking the hardware which you already paid for from accessing free "services" to try and justify them charging you a subscription fee.


so,i am the one trying to justify,while you use everything to take it to your low,turning this tread into an anti xboxlive tread while the real question here is should psn be paid for in the future.

don't like it don't use it,and you know what,you don't.
so why are you bringing up all these negatives like they affect your free online gaming in anyway?

like i said your here complaining about a service for a console that you will never buy and never use ,yet you seem to really care about it for some reason.

[Cue]

tread opened.

you just blatantly say that live doesnt get scanned for cheaters,yet cheaters get banned and accounts deleted all the time.
how do you think this happens?cuase someone reports them,so they will quickly ban someones cuase he shouts "cheater" to another.

simple answer...no...


If it's only proof you want then it is proof you get that banning works on user feedback.

quote from major nelson:

"How much evidence and data does Xbox Live need to support a ban or suspension?"

It's important to point out that just one piece of negative feedback from that ticked off person you just owned on Lockout won't get you banned from Xbox Live. While I won't say how much feedback it takes to get banned, remember that the XboxLive in-game feedback system has been successfully used for more than two years across hundreds of titles. Using a variety of tools and reports, we are able to confidently stand behind the actions we take to create a stronger Xbox Livecommunity.


What should I do if I've been the victim of a cheater?

First off, please make sure your opponent actually cheated. As much as it may suck to be beaten, just because you lost doesn't mean the person cheated.

The more important thing you should do is leave in-game feedback for the player(s) you caught cheating. To do this, simply go to your Recent Players tab, select the player, and choose Leave Feedback. This also applies to anyone who has threatened you, spewed racial slurs, etc. The Xbox Live team monitors this feedback, and it will lead to offenders being banned.

it's known as a grief report which they then use to flag you . it is on almost every other network including the PSN but like I said it relys on user feedback.



its like your first cod4 link,you send a link from a guy who made a post,with no proof at all,he says cheater and you send it to me as quoted truth,yet if you go to the actual tread you see a whole different situation.

are you in denial or something.

the hack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_hVwTrQMnM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Chg1_KHuhH0&NR=1&feature=fvwp
the tutorial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3LZ7lETWoo&feature=related
the speed virus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0vz7P5d2BE


most cheating happens trough gamesave cheating and gets detected rather quick.
no sh*t, other than hacks and game glitches (both of which I showed you) how else do you think people cheat exactly. it's detected quickly by people complaining and do you want to know how it is fixed: the game developers patch it. so maybe you ought to pay a subscription to the game devs instead.


what i told you on the aother hand is that you can't change your disc layout in anyway or it will get you detected.now please say this is not true:rolleyes: why does this get immediatly detected?cuase its scanned.
then you brought up,but its scanned trough p2p,wich is a rather real lame excuse again just to say no security messures are taken and servers arent needed for live.
No I didn't say your disc is scanned through p2p I said cheating countermeasures are patches to the game created by the dev so that the player who is host on a p2p game cannot modify the game settings. I doubt the disc is scanned anyway it would have to scan the whole disc to perform any sort of checksum it's most likely scanning a product key for piracy purposes) Besides I don't see how "scanning disc data" stops cheaters exactly because game settings aren't saved on the disc anymore it's either locally or server based. Servers aren't safe either. don't follow the instructions btw anything that asks for your id and password might be an account hijack attempt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axyYtwzcFf4


IMO there is no special anti-cheat or special security service which requires a subscription but you seem to be offended by this.


your little theory here already crummbles when you say connectionspeed limitations on xbox live for free users.
so when a silver user downloads a game from games on demand that is 6gig,or even just 3 gig,then it should take him 2 to 5 days to download a game he wants to play.
on top of that he would have the privelige to get lag on the games he plays,making him not want to come back?
"My little theory" wasn't that the silver account users get slower speeds my little theory was that the money might be going towards these download servers and that would be fine. The fact that silver account members get the same speed is even less of a reason for the gold members to pay for faster downloads. No silver account members (if they could play online) will not get more lag because like I keep saying it's almost independent of the servers because data is transferred from p2p (PEER to PEER)



seems to me your justifiing why not to pay for a service you dont want to use anyway.
fifth time: I'm tryin to justify why I would not pay for these services if Sony decide to listin to andrew who specifically said facebook, twitter, last.fm netflix and online play (which happens to be p2p) is why I should pay for PSN since according to him this is what makes Live cool apparently. I'm not fooled by that sh*t, why doesn't this go through your skull.


you are in no way obligated to use the service,but you come here to say people need to take action against it:p
so,i am the one trying to justify,while you use everything to take it to your low,turning this tread into an anti xboxlive tread while the real question here is should psn be paid for in the future.
And I don't use it but you're to defensive to realise that this is exactly why I'm saying PSN should not be charged for this stuff should be free and has always been free.


like i said your here complaining about a service for a console that you will never buy and never use ,yet you seem to really care about it for some reason.
Yes I'm here complaining I would not pay for p2p, and internet services which are free ON THE PSN it's you who seems to really care about the fact that I said these are not reasons for paying because you were offended by the fact that comparisons to Live were made ON THE ARTICLE and hence in my post. You are here defending Live I'm not attacking it you really seem to care that I would not pay for these things.

Now keep repeating and posting the same sh*t it's becoming amusing but I'm not going to waste my time on you.

[beterweter]

If it's only proof you want then it is proof you get that banning works on user feedback.

quote from major nelson:


it's known as a grief report which they then use to flag you . it is on almost every other network including the PSN but like I said it relys on user feedback.

nice quotes,but it does just say you can report a person,with the evidence it takes.
not all bannings rely's on feedback,like you suggest here my friend.



are you in denial or something.

the hack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_hVwTrQMnM

nope not in denial,from the same date where you posted the traed from,video's are eternal,but this was already patched quickly

the tutorial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3LZ7lETWoo&feature=related

thank you for showing me a video that confirms a gamesave hack,as i said that the network gets scanned on the disc structure,and are detected very quickly.
but already patched anyway,released on day after this video.

http://www.endsights.com/2009/08/04/cod4-patch-about-to-hit-ps3-xbox-should-foil-hackers/

the speed virus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0vz7P5d2BE

again,why do you show me a video of something old and patched already?
has nothing to do with the discstruture.

what are you trying to prove here?:p
besides negelecting what i said on structure scanning?...

no sh*t, other than hacks and game glitches (both of which I showed you) how else do you think people cheat exactly. it's detected quickly by people complaining and do you want to know how it is fixed: the game developers patch it. so maybe you ought to pay a subscription to the game devs instead.

ever heard of the halo 2 hacking on the orriginal xbox?
they where changing the game in every way possible...even on the disc and using it on live...
you schould check it.
you cant even put in a game that doesnt have the right structure or has been safely patched anymore,as it saves data on your xbox even when offline and flags you when you get online the next time.
you should spend some time on xbox-scene...
i said there is no way to change the disc structure but you don't seem to understand that einstein.


No I didn't say your disc is scanned through p2p I said cheating countermeasures are patches to the game created by the dev so that the player who is host on a p2p game cannot modify the game settings. I doubt the disc is scanned anyway it would have to scan the whole disc to perform any sort of checksum it's most likely scanning a product key for piracy purposes) Besides I don't see how "scanning disc data" stops cheaters exactly because game settings aren't saved on the disc anymore it's either locally or server based. Servers aren't safe either. don't follow the instructions btw anything that asks for your id and password might be an account hijack attempt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axyYtwzcFf4

LOL..." I doubt the disc is scanned anyway it would have to scan the whole disc to perform any sort of checksum"
you should check the scene like i tell you,there are several security checks that are preformed while playing from your disc...

why it stops cheaters?revert to the above on the halo 2 subject...


IMO there is no special anti-cheat or special security service which requires a subscription but you seem to be offended by this.

who said this needs a paid subscription,your console will get banned even when you have silver on this.


"My little theory" wasn't that the silver account users get slower speeds my little theory was that the money might be going towards these download servers and that would be fine. The fact that silver account members get the same speed is even less of a reason for the gold members to pay for faster downloads. No silver account members will not get more lag because like I keep saying it's almost independent of the servers because data is transferred from p2p (PEER to PEER)

again you only come up with the p2p part.
but the servers hold the content,it is partially distributed p2p,your again in a way stating here that you don't need the servers.


like i said who minds that silver members have the same download speeds,i actualy don't mind paying my part for those who are on silver so they can enjoy(exept for gaming,wich is a coise of MS to get their money for maintaining the service)downloading at the same speeds.
what you suggest is quite frankly ridicilous.

again its the choice of MS to not make the online service free,you dont see the reason why,so you dont gat a 360 nor do you get xbox live for that matter...
so again why are you here ?:p

fifth time: I'm tryin to justify why I would not pay for these services if Sony decide to listin to andrew who specifically said facebook, twitter, last.fm netflix and online play (which happens to be p2p) is why I should pay for PSN since according to him this is what makes Live cool apparently. I'm not fooled by that sh*t, why doesn't this go through your skull.

why didnt you say that the 1st time:plike i said already,your a fun person.
no serious,seems like whe need to complain,


it is complete BS and people should rightly complain instead of taking it lying down because these aren't things that require your money to run they have been running free on everything else.
it's just locking the hardware which you already paid for from accessing free "services" to try and justify them charging you a subscription fee.

but whats to complain?your not paying for it on the PSN,its a poll started on a planetxbox360 topic,so why should we rightly complain for something that isn going to be pushed thru...:rolleyes:
your telling people to take action against...nothing...

jsut cut the crap on the p2p,it shows you try everything to justify your actions.
you always bring it up lke its the only thing that drives live,its not 500million $ servers say your wrong...
your non existant non developer servers actually exist my friend and they are used to check your network and distrbute your game content if you like it or not.
your just trying to minimize it with all your p2p ranting.


And I don't use it but you're to defensive to realise that this is exactly why I'm saying PSN should not be charged for this stuff should be free and has always been free.

yep, i know this already,i'm not defensive,i just don't like you saying things that arent true and minimizing things in order to start ranting about a service you happen to dislike.
funny that i'm defensive when it all stared here with an easy opinion where i just stated my thoughts and just added a little something that happens to be tru,and just asked you a simple question at the end.

now my question still stands,but i will rephrase...

whats it to you that live is a paid service,as you clearly do not use it and want to use it,who is we,and why should we stand up to something that clearly isnt going to happen as you explained that you can already use these features for free on psn?

now i know you already answerd this,but you have to see that this was a just question adressed to you apart from why psn should be kept free.

you express much dislike to this "p2p" service(where its MS's god given right to charge for).and say that we need to take action against it...
just a question,simple as that,forget the ps3 part for a sec...


Yes I'm here complaining I would not pay for p2p, and internet services which are free ON THE PSN it's you who seems to really care about the fact that I said these are not reasons for paying because you were offended by the fact that comparisons to Live were made ON THE ARTICLE and hence in my post. You are here defending Live I'm not attacking it you really seem to care that I would not pay for these things.

Now keep repeating and posting the same sh*t it's becoming amusing but I'm not going to waste my time on you.

don't mind the comparison,but the selectivly ignoring of some points that is used to minimize(i'm shure your going to say something about this word "minimize" now,cuase if seem to use words more then 3 times your getting all defensive about them and try to minimize them as well:p) and justify what your saying.

nope its just me asking you some very simple answers to some very simple questions,wich you take somehow too far...:p
making you think i am defending,happens everytime,so we are her yet again.
i got all the time in the world.

this makes our conversation so much fun...;)

so good day to you sir...

[deftonesmx17]

I can see now that your roughly thinking the same as me but you post that I replied too suggested otherwise and happy to pay.


At least we can agree on the fact that Live is a ripoff.

[Mikeyy]

I don't see whats wrong with PSN.. Sure one out of every 5 COD4 games are going to get a terrible host and end early but who cares, takes 10 seconds to get into a new game, the matchmaking is very fast.

the PSN Store is just awesome.

what are we missing then, this magic feature that makes Live worth $50? Cross game voice chat? .... that can't be it... oh, you are paying for a brand name, LIVE. thats it. The industry worships this name "LIVE" and gives them the special treatment with DLC and stuff.

Theres nothing "Wrong" with PSN, its just a Idiology problem in everybodys heads.

[twoboys]

Lets keep this simple. M$ charge £40 / $50 a year for what $ony gives you for free.

Keep it free $ony, it will all come good in the end.

[FearEvil]

Far more often than not when someone is complaining about a bad connection it's on the gamers end, not Live or PSN. People just don't know **** about networking and assume it's MS or Sony fucking up.

[EL_CAD]

Far more often than not when someone is complaining about a bad connection it's on the gamers end, not Live or PSN. People just don't know **** about networking and assume it's MS or Sony fucking up.

I've been over my friend's house who has a 360 and a PS3 and his own internet connection. He also has a room mate with a 360 and a PS3 and his own internet. They both have issues on both systems since they live in the boonies, but the problems with PSN are more frequent and cause more disconnects.