Forza 3 team: We beat GT 5 on a lot of features

[Zeus]

More fighting talk from the Forza 3 camp as their product manager has exclaimed that their racer beats Gran Turismo 5 on a lot of features. He noted it is these features that really take Forza really to the next level!

<blockquote>EGTV: How do you reckon Forza 3 stacks up against GT5?

"We've seen it on the floor, it's a good looking game, in terms of the content feature by feature, you know, I believe we beat them on a lot of the features as well our 400 hundred cars, they're fully built cars, full interiors, uh, fully damageable and deliveries just to mention that user created - user generated content really takes our game to the next level."

The guy's pretty confident in speech and according to him GT5 has nothing on Forza Motor Sport 3, which will be out exclusively for the Xbox 360 on October 23rd 2009. You know what's strange? I have this feeling GT5 fans are laughing their heads off, why? I have no clue, just a feeling. There's nothing to scoff at though, because so far the game's looking sweet. See the full interview now.</blockquote>

News Source: <A href="http://gamesthirstarticles.blogspot.com/2009/10/forza-3-product-manager-we-beat-gt5-on.html" t arget="_blank">Gamersthirst</a>

[danight]

well forza 2 and 3 has come out before gt5.... so im sure they have to be a little cocky...

both big name franchise games... but 1 has 2 releases meaning the cashed in... You have to wonder how the GT dev team even makes money as a company.

You also have to wonder with need 4 speed shift and forza3 and dirt 2 did that scare gt5 out of this year? Basically they probably saw some features they liked and wanted to add from those games.

In any case forza 3 will probably pull some great scores....but if gt5 comes in at anything under perfect sony fans should revolt... No reason for a game to take so long and be hyped then not deliver the goods.

I think both racers will firmly make sim racing fans happy, but id imagine ps3 fans are a little upset seeing this game get delayed until next year.
You have to wonder if this isnt gonna help sell some xbox 360`s if microsoft heavily advertises this release.

[Midnightkilla91]

im gettin both so idc lol :D

[Jason Voorhees]

im gettin both so idc lol :d

+1..................

[grapeape]

Im getting both as well...nice to see that for once people seem to realize that Zeus posts this stuff in the wrong sections just to bait fanboys.

[lostn]

you know, I believe we beat them on a lot of the features as well our 400 hundred cars, they're fully built cars, full interiors, uh, fully damageable and deliveries just to mention that user created - user generated content really takes our game to the next level."

Doesn't sound like he's brimming with confidence there. He didn't list much features. The only notable one here is user generated content. The 400 cars is not a bullet point. GT5 has double that. GT5 also has damage now.

Having it come on two discs.. I don't know. I only have an Arcade unit.

[kcvfr400]

Doesn't sound like he's brimming with confidence there. He didn't list much features. The only notable one here is user generated content. The 400 cars is not a bullet point. GT5 has double that. GT5 also has damage now.

Having it come on two discs.. I don't know. I only have an Arcade unit.

I thought the same. All talk and no substance is the phrase that comes to mind. Perhaps this should have been posted in the 360 section for the usual suspects to lube up and bend over for lol.

[FearEvil]

Bah, Forza 3 will do some things better, GT5 will do something better. It's all market posturing.

[deftonesmx17]

The 400 cars is not a bullet point. GT5 has double that. GT5 also has damage now.


Yeah well, let’s actually think about that for a second. That means GT5 will have 400 cars people might actually drive and another 400 people won’t give a **** about just like GT4 did.

All 400 cars in Forza will have damage and a fully detailed in car view. GT5 will have only a portion of its cars with damage and also only a portion with a fully detailed in car view.

Regardless....the biggest selling point for me when it comes to Forza is the car customization. Not just the vinyl’s but bumpers, hoods, wings, bodykits...you name it. I can make that car my own and they all actually affect the aerodynamics.

[Cue]

Yeah well, let’s actually think about that for a second. That means GT5 will have 400 cars people might actually drive and another 400 people won’t give a **** about just like GT4 did.

All 400 cars in Forza will have damage and a fully detailed in car view. GT5 will have only a portion of its cars with damage and also only a portion with a fully detailed in car view.

Regardless....the biggest selling point for me when it comes to Forza is the car customization. Not just the vinyl’s but bumpers, hoods, wings, bodykits...you name it. I can make that car my own and they all actually affect the aerodynamics.

But what if the car you actually give a **** about isn't in the 400 you are offered but is in the 1000 that GT5 has?
Still a moot point though, if your point is that car numbers do not matter then why is it significant enough for him to mention even when it is smaller than what the competition offers in GT5. I think that's what lostn's point is why mention it in the first place, even more silly, mentioning it when the competition has more.

Also a correction to your post all 1,000 or so cars in GT5 have interior views but not all cars have damage. You could use the same argument and say those are cars most people don't give a **** about, right?

[taiki]

All 400 cars in Forza will have damage and a fully detailed in car view.

Who the hell is looking at the inside of their car while driving? Shouldn't they be looking at, I don't know, the track?

[iLLNESS]

Doesn't sound like he's brimming with confidence there. He didn't list much features. The only notable one here is user generated content. The 400 cars is not a bullet point. GT5 has double that. GT5 also has damage now.

is 5 different versions of the same model really a big selling point? sure there may be double the amount of cars, but how many of them will have minor differences between the two aside from what car sponsered it and has its decals on it? the more the merrier but it shouldn't be a big selling point..

and damage? no. having the 'appearance' of damage, and damange physics like forza has had since day 1 are two completely different things.

[Cue]

is 5 different versions of the same model really a big selling point? sure there may be double the amount of cars, but how many of them will have minor differences between the two aside from what car sponsered it and has its decals on it? the more the merrier but it shouldn't be a big selling point..

and damage? no. having the 'appearance' of damage, and damange physics like forza has had since day 1 are two completely different things.

If you think that is not a selling point then take it out on the product manager at Turn 10 who brought it up. Can we stop with the Straw Man arguments. lostn didn't say a huge car list is a major selling point he said why boast about car numbers in the first place when the competition has more. Anybody who thinks that is logical is insane, simple as that.

[taiki]

is 5 different versions of the same model really a big selling point? sure there may be double the amount of cars, but how many of them will have minor differences between the two aside from what car sponsered it and has its decals on it? the more the merrier but it shouldn't be a big selling point..

and damage? no. having the 'appearance' of damage, and damange physics like forza has had since day 1 are two completely different things.

Until Forza has the Chaparral 2j, the Nissan Sil-eighty and the very first Benz...

I'll put up with 20 GT-Rs and 70 Evos. Because I'll probably also get a DeLorean and a bizarre Honda or Citroen prototype.

[dsav]

Bah, Forza 3 will do some things better, GT5 will do something better. It's all market posturing.


probably, but we'll have to wait til both games are out to actually compare them.

i'm actually glad gt5 is coming out later at this point, by then i should be almost done with forza 3 an i'll be looking for a new racing game, an gt5 should fill my needs.


Who the hell is looking at the inside of their car while driving? Shouldn't they be looking at, I don't know, the track?

it's called cockpit view, which in real life that's the main thing the driver sees when racing, other than of course the road ahead.

now i'm not the biggest fan of it, but i do use it sometimes, especially in nfs shift.

i'm willing to bet shift's cockpit view is better than both forza and gt, i'm probably right too.

[Z3R0B4NG]

I'm sure we will get no straight Facts what Car Numbers or more important the ammount of Tracks is until both Games are released.

Only because you can race a Track in 8 Variations doesnt make it 8 Tracks, it is still ONE Track.
And what do i want with 400+ Cars if i drive the same 10 Tracks for weeks? I dont care much if the tracks are real ones after two weeks i'm getting bored to look at them. (that was at least my experience with Forza 2).



i'm willing to bet shift's cockpit view is better than both forza and gt, i'm probably right too.

played shift, played forza 3 demo
and yes NFS shifts cockpit view is better, not because of the motionblur but you just see more of the car, the animation while turning the wheel is better and most importantly it moves like it should while Forza is way to static, with slow cars you barely see any movement at all.
But imho Shift has fucked up physics and therefore is not much fun, i'd go with Forza even if there were no Cockpits and compared to Forza 2 it is an improvement.

Don't have a PS3 so i do not care much about GT5.

[Xenogears V]

Forza 3 team: We beat GT 5 on a lot of features

ROTF. Forza is the worse driving game.

Only NFS:shift is a worthy rival, but for now GT:5 rules.Masterpiece for graphic and simulation.

[grapeape]

But what if the car you actually give a **** about isn't in the 400 you are offered but is in the 1000 that GT5 has?
Still a moot point though, if your point is that car numbers do not matter then why is it significant enough for him to mention even when it is smaller than what the competition offers in GT5. I think that's what lostn's point is why mention it in the first place, even more silly, mentioning it when the competition has more.

Also a correction to your post all 1,000 or so cars in GT5 have interior views but not all cars have damage. You could use the same argument and say those are cars most people don't give a **** about, right?

But does it really make much difference when you have things like 4 variations of an 07 chevy silverado, 3 difference versions of a 67 volkwagon painted like Herbie the Love Bug or 10 variations of an 02 Ford Focus? Lets face it the "car lists" on both games are nothing but fan service...when they pared down to the core there are probably 100 truly different cars.

[Cue]

But does it really make much difference when you have things like 4 variations of an 07 chevy silverado, 3 difference versions of a 67 volkwagon painted like Herbie the Love Bug or 10 variations of an 02 Ford Focus? Lets face it the "car lists" on both games are nothing but fan service...when they pared down to the core there are probably 100 truly different cars.

I think it's more than 100 truly different cars but that's another debate entirely. I personally don't think it matters but like you said to some it may. I also don't think they include a paint job difference as a new car otherwise they just include it as a paint job. it is usually cars from tuning firms like mine's so it is in fact the complete opposite of what people claim. shell and perhaps paint (cosmetics) is the same but the car (the way it drives) isn't, instead of vice versa.


Please do not get me wrong, like I said I personally do not mind if the car numbers were lower but I do buy the cars I have a particular attachment to and it would be good if they are included.


What I did mind however was the fact that everybody gave lostn a straw man argument to his point.

If I ask somebody what makes cars better than bikes I would hope they wouldn't turn around and say "0-60 acceleration"

lostn just said "what? why has he mentioned this. bikes beat cars in acceleration"

and everybody turned around and said things like "but come on, acceleration is not important",

lostn didn't say it is ,and even if he thinks it is it doesn't take anything away from his original point.

[d33znutzEP]

More features?

LOL?

Forza has nascar.... oh wait...

Forza has rally.... oh wait...

forza has real time weather change and effects.... oh wait...

Forza has over 1000 cars... oh wait...

forza has detailed interior damage the corresponds to the outside... oh wait..

What forza does have is 400 cars that you cannot even use without installing 300 of them onto a HDD... ouch arcade users!

[grapeape]

More features?

LOL?

Forza has nascar.... oh wait...

Forza has rally.... oh wait...

forza has real time weather change and effects.... oh wait...

Forza has over 1000 cars... oh wait...

forza has detailed interior damage the corresponds to the outside... oh wait..

What forza does have is 400 cars that you cannot even use without installing 300 of them onto a HDD... ouch arcade users!

But you forgot the other thing Forza does have....a shipping title for the holiday season.

[beterweter]

More features?

LOL?

you don't know if you can LOL?...LOL:D

Forza has nascar.... oh wait...

Forza has rally.... oh wait...

forza has real time weather change and effects.... oh wait...

Forza has over 1000 cars... oh wait...

what does more cars have to do with extra features?its just more cars...,never thought you would understand that,but whatever

forza has detailed interior damage the corresponds to the outside... oh wait..

GT5 only has partial damage and interiour damage to some cars,so your happy with a half feature and the damage isnt even worth mentioning,well ok then
:rolleyes:

What forza does have is 400 cars that you cannot even use without installing 300 of them onto a HDD... ouch arcade users!

getting a 360 without HDD is dumb these days...
you have 300 you can play without hdd,and 104 you can add and add in split parts,get your facts strait nitwit.

in this case i think most real racing fans with multi consoles will be getting both GT5 and forza 3 as they are both impressive racing games with an impressive car and track lineup.

[d33znutzEP]

getting a 360 without HDD is dumb these days...
you have 300 you can play without hdd,and 104 you can add and add in split parts,get your facts strait nitwit.

in this case i think most real racing fans with multi consoles will be getting both GT5 and forza 3 as they are both impressive racing games with an impressive car and track lineup.

exactly.. I will be getting both myself.

Both this whole thread is just LOL!

All these features yet they fail to list them... haha!

[beterweter]

exactly.. I will be getting both myself.

Both this whole thread is just LOL!

All these features yet they fail to list them... haha!

i think the key features are mentioned :rolleyes:


they're fully built cars, full interiors, uh, fully damageable and deliveries just to mention that user created - user generated content really takes our game to the next level.

do you even read the topics or do you just start ranting and giving false information that just shows what a baby you are?:p

[Cue]

i think the key features are mentioned :rolleyes:


do you even read the topics or do you just start ranting and giving false information that just shows what a baby you are?:p

I don't want to be defending deeznutz but resorting to personal attacks when he made none is just unacceptable it actually shows your immaturity not his. I think you need to read the thread bud instead of jumping on people to defend anything with a MS logo.

I like the fact that when people were trying to point out the cheap price of the arcade in comparison the argument was that people had a choice to buy a 360 without a HDD. "optional" was the word I kept hearing but now you're branding them as "dumb".

For once I think deeznutz is right the list given by Turn 10 is padded with stuff that the competition has or does better.

"I believe we beat them on a lot of the features as well our 400 hundred cars<--padding (GT5 has more),they're fully built cars<--padding ( GT5 cars are also fully built and 175 even more "fully built"), full interiors<--padding (GT5 also has full interiors), uh, fully damageable and deliveries just to mention that user created - user generated content really takes our game to the next level."

Why he couldn't just say we have some sort of damage (not full) and shareable livery is beyond me but he padded it out with bull and didn't get called out for it. oddly enough, he is even being defended and the people who called him out are being attacked personally; but I expected nothing less from a thread created for such purpose.

[beterweter]

I don't want to be defending deeznutz but resorting to personal attacks when he made none is just unacceptable it actually shows your immaturity not his. I think you need to read the thread bud instead of jumping on people to defend anything with a MS logo.

I like the fact that when people were trying to point out the cheap price of the arcade in comparison the argument was that people had a choice to buy a 360 without a HDD. "optional" was the word I kept hearing but now you're branding them as "dumb".

For once I think deeznutz is right the list given by Turn 10 is padded with stuff that the competition has or does better.

"I believe we beat them on a lot of the features as well our 400 hundred cars<--padding (GT5 has more),they're fully built cars<--padding ( GT5 cars are also fully built and 175 even more "fully built"), full interiors<--padding (GT5 also has full interiors), uh, fully damageable and deliveries just to mention that user created - user generated content really takes our game to the next level."

Why he couldn't just say we have some sort of damage (not full) and shareable livery is beyond me but he padded it out with bull and didn't get called out for it. oddly enough, he is even being defended and the people who called him out are being attacked personally; but I expected nothing less from a thread created for such purpose.

i knew that somehow you or 400 was going to end up arguing with me this way.:p

fine that your defending a liitle troll that has really nothing usefull to say and is just here ranting and crying about ps3 being the best and how all other games suck.
shows a little of yourself don't it:p

if you read my point of vieuw about the core system buyers you will see that i state that your either dumb or do not have the money to buy one indeed.
my main point of vieuw is that its dumb,but i have no saying in you being able to afford it or you being dumb not to buy it.
i said that it provided a cheaper solution for the ones with less money,and yes then optionel is a temporary solution...(but dumb if you can afford it)

you forgot some key parts.


uh, fully damageable and deliveries just to mention that user created - user generated content really takes our game to the next level.

also only 70 tracks as oppsosed to 115+ in forza 3 and yadayadayada...

your missing my whole point again and i think i made it clear at the end of my post,


in this case i think most real racing fans with multi consoles will be getting both GT5 and forza 3 as they are both impressive racing games with an impressive car and track lineup.

a man of your status:pshould see that i'm just pointing out some things to her.
and the main thing here is that she shouldnt start ranting in every tread,their are other ways to do this.
your basicly saying to let a troll troll on because he says what in your point of vuew correct...figures


More features?

LOL?

Forza has nascar.... oh wait...

Forza has rally.... oh wait...

forza has real time weather change and effects.... oh wait...

Forza has over 1000 cars... oh wait...

forza has detailed interior damage the corresponds to the outside... oh wait..

What forza does have is 400 cars that you cannot even use without installing 300 of them onto a HDD... ouch arcade users!

so this is in your point of vieuw a mature post?:rolleyes:
giving false information is mature and acceptable and you think he's right?
cause this was the post where it started you know,not at the post you point to...
this is what i like about you guys...selective reading...:p


the whole funy part is that you say that i defend anything thats MS,but the truth is that i just correct you,wich i will do in any case,you guys just need to be corrected alot a.
its just like you saying live is just a p2p network...

truth is you guys make me LOL,and i'm having a ball.
you for saying that people are to defensive and jumping on there posts as the 1st one...you should really check your own posts and see where it starts...:p
always pretending not to be biased...

deez for bringing 99,5% posts that can be laughed away and proven otherwise within 2 minutes.

400...well he tries alot,but hes mainly in the background following others and agreeing,and trying to trow a little woud on the fire here and their...

trow in a little calcu(other d33z alias) and your the fantastic 4 that drive the big playstation maxconsole community:p

none of you seem to see anything nagative playstation related,defending it with every molecule in your body...
hell you guys are even criying about threads that are started that you feel don't have the right colour adressed to it...

msnaches,qraftee,sirxluaghs,grapape,kneehigh,and some others here seem to be unbiased from my point of vieuw.
why?they have a whole different way of talking and respect others opinions.

[Cue]

i knew that somehow you or 400 was going to end up arguing with me this way.:p

fine that your defending a liitle troll that has really nothing usefull to say and is just here ranting and crying about ps3 being the best and how all other games suck.
shows a little of yourself don't it:p
I'm not defending him at all but for a grown man you are no better than him.



you forgot some key parts.

also only 70 tracks as oppsosed to 115+ in forza 3 and yadayadayada...

No I didn't forget but Turn 10 did. again you seem to think that I care what GT5 has over Forza when all I said was that the list Turn 10 gave is complete rubbish.


your missing my whole point again and i think i made it clear at the end of my post,

a man of your status:pshould see that i'm just pointing out some things to her.
and the main thing here is that she shouldnt start ranting in every tread,their are other ways to do this.
your basicly saying to let a troll troll on because he says what in your point of vuew correct...figures

I'm not saying let a troll troll but when the thread is created for that reason for stupid comparisons of two games what do you expect to see other than somebody saying what GT5 has over Forza not in the best of ways but unlike your post it was actually on topic and didn't insult anybody.


so this is in your point of vieuw a mature post?:rolleyes:
giving false information is mature and acceptable and you think he's right?
cause this was the post where it started you know,not at the post you point to...
this is what i like about you guys...selective reading...:p
No like I said not the best way to state your facts but more mature than your post yes, that it was; because he did not make a personal attack on anybody he actually stayed on topic and believe it or not was factually correct, (don't know how the install part works on the 360 so not sure about that part)


the whole funy part is that you say that i defend anything thats MS,but the truth is that i just correct you,wich i will do in any case,you guys just need to be corrected alot a.
its just like you saying live is just a p2p network...
No you don't correct me, others may have, but unlike you when I am corrected I don't go off topic as if to try and prove I was right all along I actually thank the person for correcting me/teaching me something. Never said it's purely p2p in much the same way bittorrent is not purely p2p. I (even MS) say that most games run online with p2p (are player hosted) (and I gave Call of Duty as an example) yet you keep refuting this for reasons I do not understand and provide nothing.


truth is you guys make me LOL,and i'm having a ball.
you for saying that people are to defensive and jumping on there posts as the 1st one...you should really check your own posts and see where it starts...:p
always pretending not to be biased...

deez for bringing 99,5% posts that can be laughed away and proven otherwise within 2 minutes.

400...well he tries alot,but hes mainly in the background following others and agreeing,and trying to trow a little woud on the fire here and their...

trow in a little calcu(other d33z alias) and your the fantastic 4 that drive the big playstation maxconsole community:p

Well I'm not going to respond to this because there isn't actually anything to respond to in a mature manner, I quoted this section here for the sake of completeness since all you try and do is accuse me of selective reading without pointing out what I failed to read.


none of you seem to see anything nagative playstation related,defending it with every molecule in your body...
hell you guys are even criying about threads that are started that you feel don't have the right colour adressed to it...
And I suppose you see them. I do sometimes say the heading is in the wrong
section but does it make me bias?

here is a quote from this very thread from a person in your unbias list


Im getting both as well...nice to see that for once people seem to realize that Zeus posts this stuff in the wrong sections just to bait fanboys.

seems like I'm not the only one huh. Before you get the wrong end of the stick like you usually do, I'm not saying Grapeape is bias infact he is one of the few people here I can have a constructive logical conversation with. Along with msanches,qraftee,sirxlaughs,Threedog and almost everybody else except a select few but I fail to see how pointing out it's in the wrong section makes me bias.


msnaches,qraftee,sirxluaghs,grapape,kneehigh,and some others here seem to be unbiased from my point of vieuw.
why?they have a whole different way of talking and respect others opinions.


Says the man who just insulted a person for listing things GT has over Forza in a GT vs Forza thread no less. Like I said it's what this thread was created for, do I agree with its creation, no I don't. I'm sure you're now going to go off topic while at the same time call me blind, up someones ass, or a baby in one of your very mature posts but I've got some quantitative analysis that needs my time more so I'm afraid I'm going to have to stop replying to you.

[beterweter]

I'm not defending him at all but for a grown man you are no better than him.

i have to lower myself to the same level to get her attention,that seems to be the only thing she understands,why should i not make a comment to her statements and leave everything for what it is...you seem to have problems with what illness has to say yet you don't see a problem with what she has to say and say its just her way of saying it,wich is the same way as illness makes his posts.


No I didn't forget but Turn 10 did. again you seem to think that I care what GT5 has over Forza when all I said was that the list Turn 10 gave is complete rubbish.

have you seen the video intervieuw where this article is based on?
he just makes some statements over some xtra features,and off course its been blown out of context in this written article.
again i'm just commenting on something d33z says and you feel the urge to barge in.
turn 10 didnt say complete rubbish,its just complete rubbish in you opinion...
-car dammage will be a huge difference opposed to GT5 no denying that
-craches will be a huge difference oposed to GT5(just take a look at the last shot on the video where the car is flying to a crash)
-user generated content wil be a stap that is not set in GT5

-rally and nascar will be a huge difference between GT5 and forza 3
-1000 cars will be a huge differce between GT5 and 400 forza cars,and the way thay are presented will bring the big diffrerence here.

these are all unique different features between the 2 games,and every game has its plus or minus points.
(wich i already stated):p


I'm not saying let a troll troll but when the thread is created for that reason for stupid comparisons of two games what do you expect to see other than somebody saying what GT5 has over Forza not in the best of ways but unlike your post it was actually on topic and didn't insult anybody.

now who started stupid comparisons in the 1st place here?LOL...
you fail to see where this started again and why i made my comment and yet you again feel the urge to defend he's statements...
why becuase he fails to defend hes points himself...
now why isnt my post on topic,i think it is on topic actually just like you say that her post is on topic.
we are talking about the forza features opposed to the GT5 features...LOL

No like I said not the best way to state your facts but more mature than your post yes, that it was; because he did not make a personal attack on anybody he actually stayed on topic and believe it or not was factually correct, (don't know how the install part works on the 360 so not sure about that part)

doesnt matter if its not a personal attack or not really,barging in like tis isnt nessesary in any way...
she just does it to work everybody's nerves and thinks shes great:p
just like your urge to barge in isnt really nessesary...but you feel somehow attacked by my comments so now where her yet again and qiute frankly,i didnt expect anything less from you,its just a matter of time before you barge in.you cant stand anything negative,you say you don't care nut your comments in this topic clearly say you do care alot.


No you don't correct me, others may have, but unlike you when I am corrected I don't go off topic as if to try and prove I was right all along I actually thank the person for correcting me/teaching me something. Never said it's purely p2p in much the same way bittorrent is not purely p2p. I (even MS) say that most games run online with p2p (are player hosted) (and I gave Call of Duty as an example) yet you keep refuting this for reasons I do not understand and provide nothing.

yes i correct you,you just refuse to see it and think your right as you only see things form your point of vieuw.
not trying to,teach you anything either just pointing out that you should say things as they are and not minimize things just becuase you dont like them like you do with your p2p ranting.
no,you said that it works as p2p not utilizing the servers to play games or get contents,and saying that the servers used by the live service are not MS servers when they really are.
my problem with your statements are that you deliberately fail to mention aspects in order to minimize things.
we have established some time ago that p2p is used for some live games.
but its MS given right to choose to charge for the service...
you said that live was nothing more then a matchmaking service:rolleyes:
ruling out facts thatv the MS servers hold all game content;and in the process saying that in defend everything MS as i just want you to be correct.
why the hell do you think i don't comment on the rest of your posts?
i actually do think that you are right at oher points and i enjoy some of your conversations,and it really gives me no reason to jump in the conversatios.
your just wrong to jump on some people the way you do.

just say it right or shut the f#ck up...
this is why i started this conversation with d33z,cause for the 1millionth time he starts spreading uther crap and lies with hes 300 cars comment


Well I'm not going to respond to this because there isn't actually anything to respond to in a mature manner, I quoted this section here for the sake of completeness since all you try and do is accuse me of selective reading without pointing out what I failed to read.

didnt i point it out?:p
i will point you to it again what you missed,


More features?

LOL?

Forza has nascar.... oh wait...

Forza has rally.... oh wait...

forza has real time weather change and effects.... oh wait...

Forza has over 1000 cars... oh wait...

forza has detailed interior damage the corresponds to the outside... oh wait..

What forza does have is 400 cars that you cannot even use without installing 300 of them onto a HDD... ouch arcade users!


And I suppose you see them. I do sometimes say the heading is in the wrong
section but does it make me bias?

thats the pitty with you you have some good points and interesting conversations but reading them all just points you and all your conversations to one system of choise and even though you seem to listen to some intresting comments from others you always fail to see anyting negative about the ps3.

here is a quote from this very thread from a person in your unbias list



seems like I'm not the only one huh. Before you get the wrong end of the stick like you usually do, I'm not saying Grapeape is bias infact he is one of the few people here I can have a constructive logical conversation with. Along with msanches,qraftee,sirxlaughs,Threedog and almost everybody else except a select few but I fail to see how pointing out it's in the wrong section makes me bias.

and it fits where in this conversation and point to bias how?
you got it where?


Says the man who just insulted a person for listing things GT has over Forza in a GT vs Forza thread no less. Like I said it's what this thread was created for, do I agree with its creation, no I don't. I'm sure you're now going to go off topic while at the same time call me blind, up someones ass, or a baby in one of your very mature posts but I've got some quantitative analysis that needs my time more so I'm afraid I'm going to have to stop replying to you.

i think the only one going off topic here is you...
always mentioning you wont be replying anymore is the same as saying you wont repply anymore due to some valid point you don't want to talk about anymore.
but it lets you leave the conversation with your head strait up...you think...

[Xenontc]

The addition of the clutch system puts F3 miles ahead of GT5 IMO. It adds a completely new layer of difficulty for people who go straight to the max difficulty, like myself. F1-2/GT1-4 have all been a walk in the park on the hardest difficulty.

[Cue]

have you seen the video intervieuw where this article is based on?
he just makes some statements over some xtra features,and off course its been blown out of context in this written article.

yes I have, it's word for word the same as the article but like I said already this article was designed for stirring up a GT vs Forza debate by deciding not to post the full interview and concentrating on the bit that will get people comparing the two games which I didn't expect to end well. Are you still dodged the fact that you just insulted somebody and continued to do so even when they had a relevant point that the list he gave is mostly padded nonsense and the thread is BS after all that is what I replied to. About illness, firstly I don't think I have insulted him second I wonder why you've never commented or insulted Illness yourself...yeah...I really do wonder.


i think the only one going off topic here is you...
always mentioning you wont be replying anymore is the same as saying you wont repply anymore due to some valid point you don't want to talk about anymore.
but it lets you leave the conversation with your head strait up...you think...

you just refuse to see it
and there you go again just paraphrasing your usual blind statement without pointing me to anything. I leave the conversation because I know it's going to continue forever going more and more off topic with post lengths growing exponentially, I walk away because it's something you cannot do since you keep trying to repeat irrellevant things which I never even disputed in the first place. it's you who thinks you leave the conversation with your head straight up if you repeat an irrelevant statement as long as it's you who posts it last while calling me blind. The wise advice to just ignore you after a while was actually given by sirxlaughs it's not because you have a relevant valid point which I'm ignoring and one which you fail to point out. So I will continue to ignore you if I feel it has gone way off topic like it has done again.

[Cue]

The addition of the clutch system puts F3 miles ahead of GT5 IMO. It adds a completely new layer of difficulty for people who go straight to the max difficulty, like myself. F1-2/GT1-4 have all been a walk in the park on the hardest difficulty.

I don't know if I want to be a part of a GT5 vs Forza thread but out of curiosity, what is different with forza 3's clutch system?
GT5 will have a clutch system if that is what you were suggesting even GT5: prologue has it so I assume the full game will too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g2YS5jA4m8

[beterweter]

yes I have, it's word for word the same as the article but like I said already this article was designed for stirring up a GT vs Forza debate by deciding not to post the full interview and concentrating on the bit that will get people comparing the two games which I didn't expect to end well. Are you still dodged the fact that you just insulted somebody and continued to do so even when they had a relevant point that the list he gave is mostly padded nonsense and the thread is BS after all that is what I replied to. About illness, firstly I don't think I have insulted him second I wonder why you've never commented or insulted Illness yourself...yeah...I really do wonder.

are you still dodging the fact that we are talking about a major troll here who only makes indesent comments that are really not needed?:rolleyes:

so are we selectively not mentioning him talking about the rewind feature then?
the whole crash features look very impressive and is in no way comparable to the the damage or crahing in GT5 so yeah its a big xtra feature to me,wich is shown only in the vid and not mentioned in the text:rolleyes:


why i never commented or insulted illness?same reason as you don't comment on anything that d33z says...
he's hard and he's right sometimes but i shure as hell do not protect or encourage him in any way...cuz he goes to far now and then,this is where you jump in,so why should i bother:p
do i jump on your comments to him?i think not...




and there you go again just paraphrasing your usual blind statement without pointing me to anything. I leave the conversation because I know it's going to continue forever going more and more off topic with post lengths growing exponentially, I walk away because it's something you cannot do since you keep trying to repeat irrellevant things which I never even disputed in the first place. it's you who thinks you leave the conversation with your head straight up if you repeat an irrelevant statement as long as it's you who posts it last while calling me blind. The wise advice to just ignore you after a while was actually given by sirxlaughs it's not because you have a relevant valid point which I'm ignoring and one which you fail to point out. So I will continue to ignore you if I feel it has gone way off topic like it has done again.


and there you go again just paraphrasing your usual blind statement without pointing me to anything,

for the 3rd time i am pointing you at hes comment,


More features?

LOL?

Forza has nascar.... oh wait...

Forza has rally.... oh wait...

forza has real time weather change and effects.... oh wait...

Forza has over 1000 cars... oh wait...

forza has detailed interior damage the corresponds to the outside... oh wait..

What forza does have is 400 cars that you cannot even use without installing 300 of them onto a HDD... ouch arcade users!

more to this part wich you neglect,and she is just blatantly lying.


What forza does have is 400 cars that you cannot even use without installing 300 of them onto a HDD... ouch arcade users!

now you again said she is right in her comment,wich she is clearly not...:p
(selective reading i call this)

now all of a sudden my tekst are getting to long and my comments are getting irrelevant to the conversation and off topic becuase i give you my answers to your posts?LOL...

thank you for not replying to 85% of my answers given to your own comments,as usual selectively taking out the only parts you want to answer .


I walk away because it's something you cannot do since you keep trying to repeat irrellevant things which I never even disputed in the first place

now lets take a little spin in my delorean and go a little off topic shall we...,




When a game is run by a server they are an open market of servers the devs/publishers can use (nothing to do with Live or PSN) and the same open market of servers run Playstation games too so again no difference and no tie to Live or PSN.

and


live is mainly a user matchmaking, content and stats (eg achievements) server as is PSN. 360 or PS3 games do not run on any centralized server it's up to the devs to decide what server they want to use and where it is located if they use servers at all.




taken form a topic where you again started to defend a d33z comment and started ranting at my comment that had nothing to do with wat you attacked my post for...so we continued...:p

actions where taken and exeptions where made especially for EA as they didnt want to go with the live service if it meant they needed to go with the live serevers(yep ive read up on this,like i promised)

but the answer was very simple,the 360 doesnt use public servers like you said they did...they use their own live servers with a few exeptions of wich some developers choose to do so...

clear case of delial i think...:p


The wise advice to just ignore you after a while was actually given by sirxlaughs it's not because you have a relevant valid point which I'm ignoring and one which you fail to point out

and i know in wich topic this advice was given,and you know what,he's right,you should ignore me,but you just cant...
you just again fail to see my point yet again,no, not fail to see,you just ignore it...
so lets put it up twice in one post especially for you...



What forza does have is 400 cars that you cannot even use without installing 300 of them onto a HDD... ouch arcade users!

[Cue]

refer to exhibit a)
http://forums.maxconsole.net/showpost.php?p=1175187&postcount=27

exhibit b)
http://forums.maxconsole.net/showpost.php?p=1175193&postcount=22

from less than a fortnight ago.
I actually think they are better than you because when I tell them they are wrong they shut up about it unlike you who takes it off-topic to try and continue to prove you are right by saying how cool MS is.

exhibit c)

No like I said not the best way to state your facts but more mature than your post yes, that it was; because he did not make a personal attack on anybody he actually stayed on topic and believe it or not was factually correct, (don't know how the install part works on the 360 so not sure about that part)

am I the one with selective reading or you?

call me bias all you want but don't act like the evidence isn't there if people look through your posts they'll see you never confront any MS trolls, not once. All your posts do is insult others specifically d33znuts over and over again simply because you felt their post insulted something MS related. deny that all you want and say that I ignore you all you want. Good to know that you are dragging the irrelevant topic of p2p here again but anybody with networking knowledge will laugh at your reply it's why it's usually wise to ignore it because when I do give you real information and proof you brush it off with irrelevant nonsense.

here is the research paper explaining the role of the matchmaking servers for a p2p network.
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/padhye/publications/xbox08.pdf

pay particular attention to this line


One console in each game session is selected to be the game host or server. All game communication between other players is relayed through this host console. The Xbox Live server provides accounting and
matchmaking services. Therefore, the NPQ between consoles and the Xbox Live server is less important to the overall gaming experience than the NPQ between the consoles themselves. This is critical in this architecture because the host is a fellow player’s console, typically on a consumer broadband connection, and not a well provisioned, dedicated server.


Now look what you made me do, I've replied again; you're right it's difficult to ignore you because you're such a successful troll when you accuse people of bias and wrong information. But maybe you should ignore d33znuts too instead of insulting, just a thought right or maybe you can't; but I hope that even if you don't take in any of it somebody else reading will learn something new.

[SpoonerPSP]

I don't know if I want to be a part of a GT5 vs Forza thread but out of curiosity, what is different with forza 3's clutch system?
GT5 will have a clutch system if that is what you were suggesting even GT5: prologue has it so I assume the full game will too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6g2YS5jA4m8

I think he means clutch with the controller, like NFS Pro Street did years ago.

[Cue]

I think he means clutch with the controller, like NFS Pro Street did years ago.

oh ok, thanks. Now I understand what he means by it being a whole new layer of difficulty. Must be pretty hard trying to get your fingers to pull off so many things at once on an unforgiving simulator. I'll probably not have the coordination for that, I already suck at fighting games :D.

[beterweter]

refer to exhibit a)
http://forums.maxconsole.net/showpost.php?p=1175187&postcount=27

exhibit b)
http://forums.maxconsole.net/showpost.php?p=1175193&postcount=22

from less than a fortnight ago.
I actually think they are better than you because when I tell them they are wrong they shut up about it unlike you who takes it off-topic to try and continue to prove you are right by saying how cool MS is.

well they don't shut up when tell them otherwise,so we continue like i continue with you...

exhibit c)



am I the one with selective reading or you?

its still you being selective yes,knowing you,you would look this up immidiatly as you don't want to provide the wrong anwsers.
this has been spread in many articles on other sites aswell like on qj.net where your also active,so i'm pretty shure you knew about it:p
100%

call me bias all you want but don't act like the evidence isn't there if people look through your posts they'll see you never confront any MS trolls, not once. All your posts do is insult others specifically d33znuts over and over again simply because you felt their post insulted something MS related. deny that all you want and say that I ignore you all you want.

ok ill call you bias,i'm beterweter btw.
offcourse i confront only specified trolls they are the ones who make this site rotten,no one seems to ban them so why should i let them get away with it.
d33z's comments are 99% lies as are calcu's posts,there posts are also 99% insulting posts in general,not only MS related...

Good to know that you are dragging the irrelevant topic of p2p here again but anybody with networking knowledge will laugh at your reply it's why it's usually wise to ignore it because when I do give you real information and proof you brush it off with irrelevant nonsense.

ok lets take a look now shall we


here is the research paper explaining the role of the matchmaking servers for a p2p network.
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/padhye/publications/xbox08.pdf

pay particular attention to this line




Now look what you made me do, I've replied again; you're right it's difficult to ignore you because you're such a successful troll when you accuse people of bias and wrong information. But maybe you should ignore d33znuts too instead of insulting, just a thought right or maybe you can't; but I hope that even if you don't take in any of it somebody else reading will learn something new.

nice find but you only seem to include the p2p aspects on live and neglect the games that need servers to run as this is only focussing on p2p games.:p
your article starts with,


Measurement and Estimation of Network QoS Among
Peer Xbox 360 Game Players

then at the very beginning it states that it wil be only looking in the p2p aspects of games based on halo 3 and a few others,actually saying that there are other games that need dedicated servers...

now pay close attention to these lines,


Network games broadly fall into two categories. In some games (e.g. MMORPGs,
web-based casual games,Quake) with a client-server architecture, players communicate
with a large, well-provisioned, and dedicated game server [4,5]. In some games with a
peer-to-peer (P2P) architecture, players communicate with each other directly or via
a dynamically chosen peer at some player’s house. In Ghost Recon, Halo series, and
others for the Xbox and Xbox 360 consoles, a server assists players in discovering
other peers to host and play with


7 Conclusions
We studied the quality of network paths among Xbox 360 game consoles playing Halo


really shows here you trie to prove a point with 2 little info,and carefully select your information hoping that somone stupid enough would leave it at this with this article...

care to look up the info on the dedicated servers and the info to where the game content is stored?(wich you say isnt stored on the live servers and wich is really my point as we already cuncluded that some games run via p2p and some on dedicated servers a long time ago):rolleyes:

my conclusion,

your still trying to minimize the use of xbox live and ignoring important features the service uses that make the xbox live...

:p

[Cue]

nice find but you only seem to include the p2p aspects on live and neglect the games that need servers to run as this is only focussing on p2p games.:p your article starts with,

then at the very beginning it states that it wil be only looking in the p2p aspects of games based on halo 3 and a few others,actually saying that there are other games that need dedicated servers...

now pay close attention to these lines,

really shows here you trie to prove a point with 2 little info,and carefully select your information hoping that somone stupid enough would leave it at this with this article...

care to look up the info on the dedicated servers and the info to where the game contentis stored?(wich you say isnt stored on the live servers and wich is really my point as we already cuncluded that some games run via p2p and some on dedicated servers a long time ago):rolleyes:

my conclusion,

your still trying to minimize the use of xbox live and ignoring important features the service uses that make the xbox live...

:p

God nothing gets through does it. If you had paid attention in the thread that you unnecessarily dug up here you would find it's you who provides little and carefully selected information about what I actually said it's right there in the text you quoted so why you didn't read the very post you quoted is beyond me

Originally Posted by Cue:
"live is mainly a user matchmaking, content and stats (eg achievements) server as is PSN. 360 or PS3 games do not run on any centralized server it's up to the devs to decide what server they want to use and where it is located if they use servers at all (i.e they will probably use p2p)."

Originally Posted by Cue:
"When a game is run by a server(i.e I f*cking know some games run on servers) they are an open market of servers the devs/publishers can use (nothing to do with Live or PSN) and the same open market of servers run Playstation games too so again no difference and no tie to Live or PSN."

if that wasn't enough I even repeated and made clear by underlining the very same thing again in this very thread.


I (even MS) say that most games run online with p2p (are player hosted) (and I gave Call of Duty as an example) yet you keep refuting this for reasons I do not understand and provide nothing.

then I gave you examples of both Sega and EA who foot the bill for their servers and Sega who shut down Chromehounds on live. Your live subscription isn't paying for these that's what I said it's not what live is I said, because we were talking about lag differences. if MS have game hosting servers it doesn't make it "more xbox live" than a server owned by sega using xbox Live i.e. its matchmaking/stat/content servers, it just happens to be server owned by MS. When I connect a Sony Erricson to a PS3 it doesn't become a part of "Playstation" just because it's owned by them I could have plugged a nokia into it. MS or sony don't have alien tech which game developers don't have access to it's the same open market of servers and none of them are obligatory or centralised when it comes to actual game hosting.

I also specifically said in that thread
"p2p is not the exception p2p is the rule, servers are the exception, servers maintained by MS even more so."

if you want evidence of it being mostly p2p too here it is from the horses mouth
http://www.thebitbag.com/2008/09/03/dedicated-or-peer-that-is-the-question/
Quote:
“As of now, the majority are peer-to-peer but it’s completely up to the developer on how they want to do it.”

Everything I said was/is factual yet you are again just saying Live is more than that in one of your usual "MS is so cool you just don't see it" statements which actually point out nothing that I disputed or any incorrect comments that I made. Then the cycle continues with you again repeating the same irrelevant thing until I decide to ignore you because lets face it that's the only way it's going to stop isn't it. not by some miracle where you actually gain some insight and go "oh ok, you know what, you're right". So in this thread I'm going to just stop here with you and follow sirxlaughs wise advice. I know you are now going to say "but you are ignoring my point which is all so valid, selective reading, <insert new irrelevant point here>" but lets face it, it's irrelevant sh*t isn't it, which I actually reply to for some reason. so no more of this crap.

[beterweter]

God nothing gets through does it. If you had paid attention in the thread that you unnecessarily dug up here you would find it's you who provides little and carefully selected information about what I actually said it's right there in the text you quoted so why you didn't read the very post you quoted is beyond me

Originally Posted by Cue:
"live is mainly a user matchmaking, content and stats (eg achievements) server as is PSN. 360 or PS3 games do not run on any centralized server it's up to the devs to decide what server they want to use and where it is located if they use servers at all (i.e they will probably use p2p)."

ok lets take a look at this then...


Unlike other online multiplayer systems (including those used on the PC and PlayStation 2), Xbox Live is highly centralized. This means that while game companies supply the networking code and gameplay, Microsoft provides the server bandwidth and user frontend; this in turn removes much of the financial burden from game developers, adding incentive to add multiplayer modes to games. This system also means that instead of paying developer firms for access to individual games, users need to pay only one yearly fee (currently $50 USD) for non- massively multiplayer games. Also, because Xbox Live is broadband-only, it is much less susceptible to network lag. While some third-party services for online play also exist, they are unsupported by Microsoft.

wich can be found here,

http://www.economicexpert.com/a/Xbox:Live.html


Originally Posted by Cue:
"When a game is run by a server(i.e I f*cking know some games run on servers)they are an open market of servers the devs/publishers can use (nothing to do with Live or PSN) and the same open market of servers run Playstation games too so again no difference and no tie to Live or PSN."

this is where your wrong,when using dedicated servers,the servers used are live servers and not public servers,these servers will not be taken down like i can still play serious sam on my xbox on live as live will always support these servers...
in fact p2p was only introdused after the release of the xbox360(wich is also covered in an article i send to you in the related topic)
the "1st gen 360 games" are run on servers as are xbox1 games.
we saw a list of EA games that where taken offline and at that moment EA was the only exeption to this that used their own servers cause they wouldnt work with live if they had to use live servers(as always,cocky EA...)
as a non xbox owner you wouldnt really know how much original xbox games can stil be played now would you:p just try it...
xbox 1 games need dedicated servers.
there are actually few(sega and EA) exeptions to this and most dedictated servers used are live servers.
when reading up i am gathering yet unconfirmed info that sega is using the xboxlive servers as well now,but untill i know more i'm not going into dept over that as i'm not shure...
their are still alot of games using dedicated servers and new released games will still use dedicated servers.

if that wasn't enough I even repeated and made clear by underlining the very same thing again in this very thread.

if that isnt enough for an answer,please don't hesitate to ask...

then I gave you examples of both Sega and EA who foot the bill for their servers and Sega who shut down Chromehounds on live. Your live subscription isn't paying for these that's what I said it's not what live is I said, because we were talking about lag differences. if MS have game hosting servers it doesn't make it "more xbox live" than a server owned by sega using xbox Live i.e. its matchmaking/stat/content servers, it just happens to be server owned by MS. When I connect a Sony Erricson to a PS3 it doesn't become a part of "Playstation" just because it's owned by them I could have plugged a nokia into it. MS or sony don't have alien tech which game developers don't have access to it's the same open market of servers and none of them are obligatory or centralised when it comes to actual game hosting.

i wasnt talking about the lag in that tread,you where talking about it again after jumping on a post that wasnt adressed to you in any way...


if MS have game hosting servers it doesn't make it "more xbox live" than a server owned by sega using xbox Live i.e. its matchmaking/stat/content servers, it just happens to be server owned by MS.

actually it does,these servers are put up by MS just to service the live service...
this is also the network where security messurements are taken to the 360 with checking disc partitions and doing security checksums from the disc(wich you doubt that happen)
these servers are the exclusive live servers

I also specifically said in that thread
"p2p is not the exception p2p is the rule, servers are the exception, servers maintained by MS even more so."

their are always the same games named when it comes to p2p this is again you toning down and minimizing,their are still alot of games on dedicated servers and most of the are maintaind by ms.
making my point tha live is more then a p2p network...

if you want evidence of it being mostly p2p too here it is from the horses mouth
http://www.thebitbag.com/2008/09/03/dedicated-or-peer-that-is-the-question/
Quote:
“As of now, the majority are peer-to-peer but it’s completely up to the developer on how they want to do it.”

i hardly see someone contacting MS (probably those well informed employees you get on the phone:p)as evidence...

but now pay close attention to this,the next thing he says...



Well that doesn’t give me much more info than I already knew. I did learn however, that EA likes to run their own Live servers and that they are dedicated. In fact, EA is one of the few companies that can foot the bill for their own Live servers. There was a recent announcement that Left 4 Dead will be run on dedicated servers.

if you like to take this as evidence,then once again only EA is spoken off,and he did mention that valve uses dedicated 360 servers...and you know what?he's right...
:p

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169669

Everything I said was/is factual yet you are again just saying Live is more than that in one of your usual "MS is so cool you just don't see it" statements which actually point out nothing that I disputed or any incorrect comments that I made. Then the cycle continues with you again repeating the same irrelevant thing until I decide to ignore you because lets face it that's the only way it's going to stop isn't it. not by some miracle where you actually gain some insight and go "oh ok, you know what, you're right". So in this thread I'm going to just stop here with you and follow sirxlaughs wise advice. I know you are now going to say "but you are ignoring my point which is all so valid, selective reading, <insert new irrelevant point here>" but lets face it, it's irrelevant sh*t isn't it, which I actually reply to for some reason. so no more of this crap.

after all this time the peices of the puzzle start to fit my friend,don't give up now.
i have gained insight and saw you are not correct...

i may have witheld some information untill now,but i wouldnt want our conversations to end to quick now would i...

your still fun...

feel free to barge in at anytime...:p




good day to you sir...

[Cue]

good day to you sir...

good day indeed since you are such a successfully troll to get me to reply again must have taken you real long to find the info which doesn't really disprove anything.
I thought I'd reply for people who actually want real facts.

in your very article:

Many users in Europe have complained about the performance of EA's servers, however, particularly on the game Burnout 3 , questioning the logic of providing a central service only to decentralise servers for certain titles.

that's like saying everybody lives in America except the people who choose not to. people were allowed to use thier own servers when live launched on the original xbox and even more ridiculous is the claim that p2p came in when 360 came, you really are clutching at straws when you start scouring the internet for things you do not seem to understand, live was mostly peer to peer even when it launched on the original xbox. Again it's also funny that you have to pay an additional fee on top of your subscription for MMO games that actually use a dedicated server.

Here is my real internet DeLorean
http://web.archive.org/web/20021008184931/http://www.gamedaily.com/features/xbox_live/
from a director at MS talking about the launch of xbox live on the original xbox


Posted by Beterweter: in fact p2p was only introdused after the release of the xbox360(wich is also covered in an article i send to you in the related topic)
the "1st gen 360 games" are run on servers as are xbox1 games.
uh no try again. for somebody who owns an xbox you know very little about how it works.
from the MS director above

"The vast majority of games on Xbox Live will run peer-to-peer, with players hosting their own games. This of course excludes persistent world games, which will be client-server based."


Now take note of a few things here in case I have to point them out
"xbox live on original xbox=mainly p2p"
"except for persistent game worlds"


We do give people the ability to host and manage their own servers

Now tell my how the **** is it centralized if people can host their own servers (which btw I'm guessing is what L4D actually did, it's probably hosted at Valves server farm).


Posted by Beterweter: this is where your wrong,when using dedicated servers,the servers used are live servers and not public servers,these servers will not be taken down

You can play alot of xbox originals online because they are mostly p2p like I said but lets look at a persistent world game which according to your very own article apparently runs on the "centralized but no really" servers run by Microsoft that even required an additional fee; PSO. yep, the phantasy star online servers got taken down, go figure huh a game running on an xbox live server
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/p/pso2/details.page/

what is an "exclusive" server anyway? Surly a server put up by the developer for Live or PSN is "exclusive" for Live or PSN simply because it was programmed for one or the other. Like I said the servers that MS owns are not some alien tech that the Developer couldn't buy and set up itself so it's the same market which you just don't seem to get, like I said its like Sony telling you to connect any phone you like to the PS3 but if you want we have some Sony Ericssons which you are not obligated to use. does that make Sony erricson part of Playstation if I use it. MS just owns those servers and you can use your own and it would still be "Xbox live" or "PSN" the game hosting server is not what Live really is. keep trying to point out how you love MS xbox live instead of staying on topic. I told you Live is mainly p2p you jump that and say I'm ignoring its features. you're like a sales man trying to change the subject. No I'm not ignoring them I just said it's mainly p2p and you get offended, there is no doubt that Live is mainly p2p but you dismissed my first article so now I've pointed you to a MS director saying it. Your article doesn't even have an author yet you trust that no problem. Again I'm sure it's going to be something new now when you go search the internet with little to no network knowledge. I know sirxlaughs, I let you down. No more I promise, no matter how good beterweters trolling techniques are, almost need reminding that this is a Forza thread.

What a civilized reply should look like:
"yeah it seems most games are p2p, and that dedicated servers are not centralized or necessarily run by MS. You were right my subscription doesn't seem to pay for dedicated servers directly though it may go towards it indirectly it's probably going towards the xbox Live matchmaking/stats/content servers. It's probably not paying for some servers since they sometimes charge an additional or separate monthly fee for dedicated servers but sometimes even they get taken down. peace out dude"

What I predict your post will look like:
"You are ignoring all the benefits of Live, I don't trust the MS director interview but here is snippet of an article with no author which is more trustworthy, btw don't read the rest of the article especially the bit where they say it has actually become decentralized. Also this is how the irrelevant thing I'm talking about works <insert more incorrect information here>"

[beterweter]

good day indeed since you are such a successfully troll to get me to reply again must have taken you real long to find the info which doesn't really disprove anything.
I thought I'd reply for people who actually want real facts.

in your very article:


that's like saying everybody lives in America except the people who choose not to. people were allowed to use thier own servers when live launched on the original xbox and even more ridiculous is the claim that p2p came in when 360 came, you really are clutching at straws when you start scouring the internet for things you do not seem to understand, live was mostly peer to peer even when it launched on the original xbox. Again it's also funny that you have to pay an additional fee on top of your subscription for MMO games that actually use a dedicated server.

Here is my real internet DeLorean
http://web.archive.org/web/20021008184931/http://www.gamedaily.com/features/xbox_live/
from a director at MS talking about the launch of xbox live on the original xbox


uh no try again. for somebody who owns an xbox you know very little about how it works.
from the MS director above


Now take note of a few things here in case I have to point them out
"xbox live on original xbox=mainly p2p"
"except for persistent game worlds"



Now tell my how the **** is it centralized if people can host their own servers (which btw I'm guessing is what L4D actually did, it's probably hosted at Valves server farm).



You can play alot of xbox originals online because they are mostly p2p like I said but lets look at a persistent world game which according to your very own article apparently runs on the "centralized but no really" servers run by Microsoft that even required an additional fee; PSO. yep, the phantasy star online servers got taken down, go figure huh a game running on an xbox live server
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/p/pso2/details.page/

what is an "exclusive" server anyway? Surly a server put up by the developer for Live or PSN is "exclusive" for Live or PSN simply because it was programmed for one or the other. Like I said the servers that MS owns are not some alien tech that the Developer couldn't buy and set up itself so it's the same market which you just don't seem to get, like I said its like Sony telling you to connect any phone you like to the PS3 but if you want we have some Sony Ericssons which you are not obligated to use. does that make Sony erricson part of Playstation if I use it. MS just owns those servers and you can use your own and it would still be "Xbox live" or "PSN" the game hosting server is not what Live really is. keep trying to point out how you love MS xbox live instead of staying on topic. I told you Live is mainly p2p you jump that and say I'm ignoring its features. you're like a sales man trying to change the subject. No I'm not ignoring them I just said it's mainly p2p and you get offended, there is no doubt that Live is mainly p2p but you dismissed my first article so now I've pointed you to a MS director saying it. Your article doesn't even have an author yet you trust that no problem. Again I'm sure it's going to be something new now when you go search the internet with little to no network knowledge. I know sirxlaughs, I let you down. No more I promise, no matter how good beterweters trolling techniques are, almost need reminding that this is a Forza thread.

What a civilized reply should look like:
"yeah it seems most games are p2p, and that dedicated servers are not centralized or necessarily run by MS. You were right my subscription doesn't seem to pay for dedicated servers directly though it may go towards it indirectly it's probably going towards the xbox Live matchmaking/stats/content servers. It's probably not paying for some servers since they sometimes charge an additional or separate monthly fee for dedicated servers but sometimes even they get taken down. peace out dude"

What I predict your post will look like:
"You are ignoring all the benefits of Live, I don't trust the MS director interview but here is snippet of an article with no author which is more trustworthy, btw don't read the rest of the article especially the bit where they say it has actually become decentralized. Also this is how the irrelevant thing I'm talking about works <insert more incorrect information here>"

well i can now no longer argue with you and be a sport about it and give it up.
articles send where the articles i read(and not only from googling at the time)...so thats where i got my info...
congrats and thank you for your time to make your comments,as it was all in my believe that it actually worked this way...
not taking away that live is more then jus a p2p service.

consider this my sencere apology...
ive been an ass all the way in my cockyness and wrong believes...

so enjoy this and grab a beer,you percistent son of a...:p(no offence)

[Cue]

well i can now no longer argue with you and be a sport about it and give it up.
articles send where the articles i read(and not only from googling at the time)...so thats where i got my info...
congrats and thank you for your time to make your comments,as it was all in my believe that it actually worked this way...
not taking away that live is more then jus a p2p service.

consider this my sencere apology...
ive been an ass all the way in my cockyness and wrong believes...

so enjoy this and grab a beer,you percistent son of a...:p(no offence)

No problem beterweter.

you take care.

[beterweter]

No problem beterweter.

you take care.


k,thanks and sorry again.

if i'm wrong i'm wrong...

[deftonesmx17]

Also a correction to your post all 1,000 or so cars in GT5 have interior views but not all cars have damage. You could use the same argument and say those are cars most people don't give a **** about, right?

Kaz himself in an interview said not every car in the game will have a fully detailed in car view. So no need to correct me buddy.

[Cue]

Kaz himself in an interview said not every car in the game will have a fully detailed in car view. So no need to correct me buddy.

he said racing cars will have damage with detailed "internals"; you should be able to see the engines when bonnets pop open or bumpers come off all other cars have cosmetic damage (scratches etc) and mechanical damage (engine failure etc). I guess you could be right he may have meant cockpit view, we will only know when it comes out.

[d33znutzEP]

you guys have way too much time on your hands writing essays back and forth.. wtf.. get some sun light... for real!

[beterweter]

you guys have way too much time on your hands writing essays back and forth.. wtf.. get some sun light... for real!

why don't you go talk to yourself some more...calcud33z:rolleyes:

:p