Flordia man sues Sony over PS3 firmware v3.0 problems

[Zeus]

A man from Florida has filed a law-suit against Sony over their recent v3.0 firmware update. The suit alleges that the firmware caused his PS3 to malfunction and requires an 'expensive fix'.

<blockquote>A Florida man filed a class action lawsuit against Sony Computer Entertainment America last week, claiming that PlayStation 3's recent firmware 3.0 upgrade caused consoles to "malfunction," requiring an expensive fix.

A complaint filed by lead plaintiff John Kennedy, and originally unearthed by Courthouse News, claimed that "thousands of Sony PS3 video game owners who downloaded a system software update required by Sony found that the update caused their PS3 units to malfunction and actually damaged the hardware on many units." The suit claimed that Sony is charging $150 to repair PS3s with "sustained hardware damage" from the update.

Sony released a major update to the PS3's firmware in early September, which added some new functionality and features to the console. Days later, Sony acknowledged complaints from users who said that following the update, certain games would "freeze" up, and controllers were not functioning correctly.</blockquote>

News Source: <A href="http://www.gamasutra.com/newswire?story=25526" target="_blank">GS</a>

[QrafTee]

You know what would be funny? If he tried to get Jack Thompson's help.

[msanchez]

Sony are really looking for trouble with this. They have to be a more friendly with the price for fixing consoles out of warranty, and they should also extend the warranty. Saying the ps3 will be supported for 10 years means very little to the person who's ps3 broke 2 years after purchase; however, "hardware damage"? that's news to me. Did the update fry something inside some ps3s or something? Sometimes I think that these people that put forward these law suits make themselves look stupid trying to exaggerate their claims, and in the end this probably works against them.

[soulbwoy]

I think sony,360, and Nintendo should be held liable for **** like this. This trend of systems and games constantly needing updates since broadband was introduced to gaming consoles is bullshit.

[tech3475]

How much money is this guy asking for?....for himself.

I agree though, Console manufacturers need to fix the situation. Maybe they should implement some built in recovery option in ROM. So far the only console with decent recovery is the old PSP and the ipod touch units....although the manufacturers will probably want the console to be connected to the net so they can verify/blacklist old/hacked software.

[kcvfr400]

How much money is this guy asking for?....for himself.

I agree though, Console manufacturers need to fix the situation. Maybe they should implement some built in recovery option in ROM. So far the only console with decent recovery is the old PSP and the ipod touch units....although the manufacturers will probably want the console to be connected to the net so they can verify/blacklist old/hacked software.

I think you have hit the nail on the head there. But the way he seems to have gone about it doesn't look like it will do anything pro active if he wins except for his wallet.

[imest]

I still have not updated to v3.0 because of the issues I have read. I have a 60GB launch system and I don't want to lose it, nor do I want to pay $150 to have sony fix their mistake. Any clue when this is going to be fixed or next update is going to be released?

I haven't keept up with the news latly and would like to access PSN but I don't want to update and screw up my machine.

[tech3475]

I believe there is software which can fake your system software version by tunneling the connection on your PC.

I believe its available at ps3hax.net

[ceril]

Precedence has to be set for this. If you have a non working system that is fine unitl a mandatory update is required to play newer games and said update doesn't work or messes something up. Warranty or not they should fix the issue, Nintendo is fixing the non modded Wii's that the 4.2 update bricked.

[ThreeDog]

I soft bricked during that update so i can believe it could of killed his console firmware updates can go wrong even if they're 100% verified.

The problem is proving it was the update or a machine malfunction we don't even know what's inside the update. The article says "The suit accuses SCEA of breach of implied warranty, negligence, negligent misrepresentation, unjust enrichment, and other counts." but doesn't state if he was within the warranty period.

My other little interest is was this the guy over at the AVSforums he wasn't as lucky as i was and his console was 100% bricked with no chance of recovery.

[Cue]

I believe there is software which can fake your system software version by tunneling the connection on your PC.

I believe its available at ps3hax.net

Yep, it's a proxy server. when the PSN servers query about firmware version it's redirected to a txt file on the PC with a spoofed firmware number.

Unfortunately the guy suing doesn't have a case.
A bad flash during the firmware update may have bricked his system but if the system cannot be recovered from the PS3 recovery menu then it wasn't the update which caused the problem (therefore no need to pay £150)

1. Turn off Playstation®3.
2. Hold the power button down; the system will turn on and turn off once again.
3. Once the System has been shutdown, re-press you finger until you hear 2 consecutive beeps
4. When you hear the 2 beeps take finger off power button.
5. You will be prompted to plug in your controller via USB and then hit the PS button
6. The Recovery menu will pop up.

You can re-flash from there, if it doesn't fix it then it's not the update which caused the problem.

[unreal maniac]

people are still complaining about thiss???? haven't you hear for update 3.01 (scarcasim)

good luck to him

[Azariel]

Wow, even Superheroes are suing Sony now: the "Floridaman"... :o when the other members of the league will join? Washingtonman, LouisianaBoy, Detroitnanny, Kansaswoman,... :o

Sorry, I always thought is funny when they write that way...

[danight]

This doesnt sound like 1 person...

class action lawsuits are usually group lawsuits of many people. w/ lawyers cashing in on around 50% of the winnings.

This guy has damages that account to what? $300.00 for a new ps3 or damages of $150.00 to send it back and get fixed.

Not many lawyers would take a case like that. So going off the bbc report and knowing this is a class action suit they are probably trying to get more people to join the cause and a portion of the winning will be paid out. Which could be anything.


The suit accuses SCEA of breach of implied warranty, negligence, negligent misrepresentation, unjust enrichment, and other counts. The suit is seeking restitution and damages in an amount to be decided at trial, as well as legal fees.


thats where it can get ugly......^^^^^^ but they stiff lave to prove it. But if the do... it could be bad press for sonys updates.

[garyopa]

In my repair business I see at least one of these bricked or semi-brick PS3's due to the many updates Sony is pushing out, almost at least one or two per month.

The two causes of failed update I have see on the PS3, is bad sector on the HDD causing read problems even after the update has been checked and claims 100%.

The second is damaged or not connected blu-ray drive , and for some reason the wireless not working on reboot after downloading the update.

I been unbricking at least one of these per week, and charging only $40 per unit, and the customer is so happy, as Sony only has one flat rate which is currently $169+plus tax here in Canada.

[ThreeDog]

In my repair business I see at least one of these bricked or semi-brick PS3's due to the many updates Sony is pushing out, almost at least one or two per month.

The two causes of failed update I have see on the PS3, is bad sector on the HDD causing read problems even after the update has been checked and claims 100%.

The second is damaged or not connected blu-ray drive , and for some reason the wireless not working on reboot after downloading the update.

I been unbricking at least one of these per week, and charging only $40 per unit, and the customer is so happy, as Sony only has one flat rate which is currently $169+plus tax here in Canada.

Nice to hear a repairers input, Can you tell me if you've ever known a failed HDCP handshake to cause the firmware update to stall after verification too?

[iLLNESS]

sony needs to learn from m$ on how to do firmware updates.

none of this 100+ MB updates, and none of these firmware bugs requiring a patch for a patch for a patch.

i'd say m$ could learn some things for hardware, but appearantly sony sucks at manufacturing and testing consoles too with the BGA's overheating and melting the solder. lol

[Cue]

In my repair business I see at least one of these bricked or semi-brick PS3's due to the many updates Sony is pushing out, almost at least one or two per month.

The two causes of failed update I have see on the PS3, is bad sector on the HDD causing read problems even after the update has been checked and claims 100%.

The second is damaged or not connected blu-ray drive , and for some reason the wireless not working on reboot after downloading the update.

I been unbricking at least one of these per week, and charging only $40 per unit, and the customer is so happy, as Sony only has one flat rate which is currently $169+plus tax here in Canada.

Thanks for the info but I'm curious, how does a firmware flash damage a BD drive? unless you are saying the firmware was being installed from a damaged drive and somehow passed the check. from what I understand a bad flash cannot really cause hardware damage.

The BD drive and Wifi not working after a flash may be due to perhaps corrupted keys in the same way the PSP loses UMD and Wifi when your keys in idstorage are corrupted but now I'm even more curious; if the bad flash isn't recoverable from the built in recovery menu that the user has access to how exactly do YOU fix it?

[Cue]

sony needs to learn from m$ on how to do firmware updates.

none of this 100+ MB updates, and none of these firmware bugs requiring a patch for a patch for a patch.

i'd say m$ could learn some things for hardware, but appearantly sony sucks at manufacturing and testing consoles too with the BGA's overheating and melting the solder. lol

just leave the thread will you, the BGAs do not overheat nor melt you simply pretend to have understood a previous thread but the information you picked up is all wrong.

[Cue]

Nice to hear a repairers input, Can you tell me if you've ever known a failed HDCP handshake to cause the firmware update to stall after verification too?

Hmm that's a very odd situation if that is the case then there is a serious problem there. By "after verification" I assume you mean the checksum that it likely performs after downloading the firmware; so a failed HDCP handshake while it is actually flashing your NAND and writing things to your HDD, yes? This shouldn't be hard to recreate and verify if there is such a problem.

[msanchez]

sony needs to learn from m$ on how to do firmware updates.

none of this 100+ MB updates, and none of these firmware bugs requiring a patch for a patch for a patch.

i'd say m$ could learn some things for hardware, but appearantly sony sucks at manufacturing and testing consoles too with the BGA's overheating and melting the solder. lol

HUH!? don't I always hear how a bunch of 360's bite the dust every time ms releases an update? or am I just going crazy? few times have I heard a sony update bricking consoles, they mess something up, but rarely do I hear of bricking.

[ThreeDog]

Hmm that's a very odd situation if that is the case then there is a serious problem there. By "after verification" I assume you mean the checksum that it likely performs after downloading the firmware; so a failed HDCP handshake while it is actually flashing your NAND and writing things to your HDD, yes? This shouldn't be hard to recreate and verify if there is such a problem.

You're correct Cue, In my case the update was stuck during install at same place as the guy on AVS (16%). There's not much evidence to suggest it was HDCP in my case but i thought id ask, It's more likely to be the hdd due to the problems i had after restoration but surely if it was able to write the update to disk and verify it that can't really of been a problem either?

Finding people with a launch console that have yet to update may be hard, this is where the majority of the complaints are coming from, older PS3s.
Then you have the trouble of finding someone that is willing to intentionally brick a console that's out of warranty and no longer sold.. good luck with that :p

[Cue]

You're correct Cue, In my case the update was stuck during install at same place as the guy on AVS (16%). There's not much evidence to suggest it was HDCP in my case but i thought id ask, It's more likely to be the hdd due to the problems i had after restoration but surely if it was able to write the update to disk and verify it that can't really of been a problem either?

Finding people with a launch console that have yet to update may be hard, this is where the majority of the complaints are coming from, older PS3s.
Then you have the trouble of finding someone that is willing to intentionally brick a console that's out of warranty and no longer sold.. good luck with that :p

good point it's not as easy to recreate as I thought :D
I wouldn't mind recreating it if it helps prove there is a bug. If it does permanently brick ( i.e. not recoverable from the recovery menu) it would become Sonys responsibility (i'll just need to make sure that I back up all my saves).
I've never tried this so I'm not sure if what I'm about to say is true, but I think you can install the current firmware again from the recovery menu, to my knowledge the flash is never incremental so it shouldn't matter which firmware you are installing over.

Your absolutely right if it wrote it to disk and verified it then I don't think you have a HDD problem though some problems may be temperamental. either that or you were extremely unlucky and the problem occurred after the check. all very unlikely so I doubt this was the case.

The fact that it froze at 16% as well may suggest it's a bug since I assume it was writing the same thing at that point but the probability for coincidence is there too.
Can I ask, does your PS3 work now with the latest update or was it permanently bricked like the one from AVS?

[ThreeDog]

The fact that it froze at 16% as well may suggest it's a bug since I assume it was writing the same thing at that point but the probability for coincidence is there too.
Can I ask, does your PS3 work now with the latest update or was it permanently bricked like the one from AVS?Bit of a delay posting sorry about that, In short i recovered it to my joy and only lost around 30 hours play i had done a full backup a couple of weeks earlier and im fairly ritualistic about backing up my saves to SD once a month.

Here's some extra detail for you. The PS3 froze at 16% i waited around 25 mins then i switched over the TV, I then checked the PS3 regularly which lasted until around 3 or 4 hours later i bit the bullet and flipped the switch.

I had trouble getting the video back on HDMI so i used the video reset trick and went back to composite. The recovery mode was active so i used that it found 3.0 on the hdd and promptly reflashed it.

I then got to the XMB and changed back to HDMI and navigated the XMB then i found every 15 seconds or so my PS3 locked up and restarted didn't fix it, I deactivated my content licenses (PS3 and PSP) without crashing and used Restore PS3 System after which my PS3 was perfectly fine and has been fine ever since.

That unit has been updated over 15 times possibly 20 i've lost count i do remember being sub 2.00 and waiting for the dual shock 3 update though.

Maybe a bit too much information but i suppose if you're looking at the issue anything small could be a clue and this is still bugging me, At least i know my 360 died from gpu failure :)

[Cue]

Bit of a delay posting sorry about that, In short i recovered it to my joy and only lost around 30 hours play i had done a full backup a couple of weeks earlier and im fairly ritualistic about backing up my saves to SD once a month.

Here's some extra detail for you. The PS3 froze at 16% i waited around 25 mins then i switched over the TV, I then checked the PS3 regularly which lasted until around 3 or 4 hours later i bit the bullet and flipped the switch.

I had trouble getting the video back on HDMI so i used the video reset trick and went back to composite. The recovery mode was active so i used that it found 3.0 on the hdd and promptly reflashed it.

I then got to the XMB and changed back to HDMI and navigated the XMB then i found every 15 seconds or so my PS3 locked up and restarted didn't fix it, I deactivated my content licenses (PS3 and PSP) without crashing and used Restore PS3 System after which my PS3 was perfectly fine and has been fine ever since.

That unit has been updated over 15 times possibly 20 i've lost count i do remember being sub 2.00 and waiting for the dual shock 3 update though.

Maybe a bit too much information but i suppose if you're looking at the issue anything small could be a clue and this is still bugging me, At least i know my 360 died from gpu failure :)



I can't really say why it froze at 16% that would be a little hard to figure out but I've not had the chance of trying to recreating a HDCP failed handshake at around that point.

whatever caused it to freeze at 16% is a bit of a mystery at the moment but
I wouldn't worry about it. things do occasionally crash yours seems to have just crashed at a bad time which caused subsequent problems/crashes. A case of no graceful degradation during an update.

You probably already know this but turning off the PS3 while it was actually writing to the HDD is likely to be what caused it to continuously crash afterwards. it probably corrupted some file on the drive. You did the right thing to turn it off though, not like you had a choice.

what happened sounds like what you would expect to happen after a freeze during a flash and the subsequent power cut while the HDD is writing so I don't think you should worry about your hardware and HDD partition anymore since you restored/reflashed everything. It just really sucks you lost 30hrs of play :( I know how you feel. I lost my burnout paradise 100% gamesave after I formatted.

[Cue]

Threedog I know this is old but I thought I'll post you the update. I tried to make it freeze at 16% without any luck (or with luck depending on how you look at it :D) I had to find a PS3 that had not been updated since it didn't let me reinstall the same firmware over the latest good update.

However, after the update I did find something by accident, the controller disconnecting is real and it's not with knock-offs. I have three ceramic white DS3s paired with the ps3 so I don't know if they have something to do with it (like rumoured) but it was infact the black SIXAXIS which did not connect. what happened was I connected my 5.00cfw PSP with a usb to the PS3 to set up remote play again. while still in usb mode I detached the psp and plugged a SIXAXIS to recharge in the same usb slot. I hit the PS button to pair the controller but it would not connect at all. I had to plug the PSP in to the usb again go to USB mode and exit USB mode normally before unplugging it. I then reconnected the SIXAXIS and it worked/paired again. I don't know what exactly is causing this or if the same happens on OFW PSPs, perhaps even non PSP devices.