Dyack: Used game sales and piracy are very similar

[Zeus]

Silicon Knights president Denis Dyack has raised an interesting comparison. Speaking at a recent event, he noted that the sale of used video games is very similar to piracy. What do you think about that? A fair comparison or completely absurd?

<blockquote>
It's not because of anything else, it's because the economics alone on piracy. Piracy, everyone talks about, 'why are these single player games multiplayer?' It's got nothing to do with anything else but piracy and used game sales, which to me quite frankly are very similar.</blockquote>

News Source: <a href="http://www.gamingunion.net/news/denis-dyack-used-game-sales-and-piracy-very-similar--689.html" target="_blank">Gamingunion.net</A>

[HyperG]

In a sense yes and a sense no. First of all the stores are reselling used games that are originals, not burned discs. Second these stores are profiting off of the used games , there is no kind of royalties generated off used games for the video game publishers to acquire. A 60 dollar game is robbery anyways so really game companies should be ok with the existing inventory being bought out before someones used copy gets thrown into a used game stores cycle. Either way they are making what they deserve.

[danight]

Yeah gamestop is bad... the would buy stolen games they knew people didnt pay for and resell them.

They offer you like 2$ a game then resell it for $30

crooks!!!!

[not_starman]

He is just another media provider who don't want you own a copy of the content. He want you to buy the right to play it once or twice. I bet that using digital distribution will very quickly pay per play. We might as well include a coin slot on consoles from now on.

BTW saying that reselling used games hurts the industry is absurd. Dev make their money long before first day the game ship to the stores. NOT based off of the sales. The store make money off the sales. I have no problem with real games being resold. Everyone who should be paid from the game has been paid.

[phallius]

Yeah gamestop is bad... the would buy stolen games they knew people didnt pay for and resell them.

They offer you like 2$ a game then resell it for $30

crooks!!!!

I hate Gamestop. I'm not sure if this is the same everywhere, but in Redlands, Ca. at the Target center, the staff is pushy, snobby and persistently trying to sell you warrantees and stuff you don't need. I watched a guy buy a 40.00 hdmi cable because the Gamestop staff told him the PS3 doesn't come with one and he won't be able to hook it up to his TV. They told me my wiifit board didn't come with batteries. LIARS!! Also, they don't shut up. They always give their opinion, even when you've told them you don't want it. They are knowledgeable but to the fault that they use it to prop up products they need to move. They're store is ridiculously small and has no PC section. They have prices for used games that are 5.00 cheaper than retail. So for a 60.00 game, they take 10% off from retail. Used games are worth about 60-70% of retail (30-40% off retail.) Go check ebay. Which brings me to a better point. If you know ebay, use that to get games. In the end you'll save about 20-40% off of what Gamestop charges and you will never get hassled for returning something. Gamestop hassled me once for a return. After that, they'll never get that chance again. Stay away from Gamestop, unless it's for investment purposes. ;)

[grapeape]

I occasionally buy used games, but I dont shop at gamestop, IMHO they are the equivalent of a seedy pawn shop preying on lower income gamers. I do buy them occasionally on craigslist and have bought some blockbuster. I do think eventually the used market will be addressed, perhaps the easiest way would be similar to the way that the movie business deal with rental companies...charge a premium for licensed rental copies then the publisher will have a revenue stream from games that will eventually be sold as used...or perhaps a small tariff on games similar to Canada's blank media tax. Though neither seems like a fun option its better than having games locked to a specific console or similar nefarious methods which seem to be where we are heading now.

Another idea would be a policy that resricted the purchase and sales of used titles during the first couple weeks of release which is where the bulk of money is made, it wouldnt hurt consumers since places like gamestop save you a max of $5 buying used on newer titles. It would hurt gamestop current model and the pirates that buy, copy and dump though.

Of course one experiment I would like to see to counter used game sales is lower prices, though its doubtful that would really have much effect. Of course there is always the option of "if you cant beat them join them", a "buyback" policy from the console manufacturers would be an interesting option...they could then manage and maintain at least part of the used market themselves.

[richbambam360]

The 2 are completley different & have nothing in common at all,What developers dont realise is that Buying & selling of used games is actually good for buisness as usually most people sell of thier old used games to actually purchase new released games & the people actually purchasing the Used games wouldn't excatly be inclined to purchase the new game anyway as people buying used games do because there cheap.
But even in some cases this isnt the case as not long ago I was in the hunt for a ps3 version of battlefield bad company scanned ebay & used copies where going for about £10+ & believe it or not I got a brand new sealed version from a online store for less than £10 be it the platinum version though but still got the game brand new for better deal than a used version now this should say something to publishers/developers & retailers sell your games cheap enough & you could just wipe out the used market & piracy market in one swoop

[cory149]

A fair comparison or completely absurd?
A fair assessment when discussing analysts who live entirely in their own imaginary little world. In both used game sales and in piracy, there is the neverending imaginary relative number of "sales lost" - without considering the facts that used game sales/trading is also recycling, and that many of those "used game sells" and "pirated copies" would never had lead to a real sale if the person buying had to pay brand new shelf price.

He is just another media provider who don't want you own a copy of the content. He want you to buy the right to play it once or twice. I bet that using digital distribution will very quickly pay per play. We might as well include a coin slot on consoles from now on.
I wish more people would have consider this before buying a single credit for downloadable content; lack of that consideration has lead to, for example, live which sells even avatar textures and background images for what seems to me hundreds of times their worth even on a single sale (while purposely locking out the console owner from creating such content for their own use.)

[ChaosKiller]

He is just another media provider who don't want you own a copy of the content. He want you to buy the right to play it once or twice. I bet that using digital distribution will very quickly pay per play. We might as well include a coin slot on consoles from now on.

BTW saying that reselling used games hurts the industry is absurd. Dev make their money long before first day the game ship to the stores. NOT based off of the sales. The store make money off the sales. I have no problem with real games being resold. Everyone who should be paid from the game has been paid.


Ofcource the devs already have been payed but if the company won't get enough money back from sales there will not be another game from that studio. If a game gets resaled the company won't make money off it.

[QrafTee]

I agree; even wrote a blog about it. A lot of people rated it down because they didn't like what I wrote.

[doxology]

I think the reason he is saying they are similar is because if you pirate a game or buy it used the developer doesn't make any money. It doesn't help the developer if I buy a used game, only if i buy it new. So if i pirate a game or buy it used its not helping the developer, its only helping gamestop or whoever i buy the used copy from.

[MadonnaProject]

Of these game publishers had their way people would pay full rpice every single time for downloading/purchasing their content. Even if they purchased it and wanted to download it a second time.

This is where gamestop is needed actually. How many times does it need to be porven? GAME PUBLISHERS ARE GREEDY SWINE, AND CATERING TO THEIR CUSTOMERS NEEDS IS THE LEAST OF THEIR DESIRES.

[ThreeDog]

Used games are not the same, A game is sold the number is added to the sales charts and revenue is given to the publisher, another person buys it for what is sometimes a lower price (its up to the buyer to see potential value there)

A downloaded game was never sold (except for the original copy) they don't give sales numbers or any revenue at all.

Publishers are greedy end of story, If i sell my Samsung TV to someone does that mean i have to pay Samsung again? heh maybe that's a good way to recover Sony's TV and Media division.

[L84skewl]

They probably want something like this: In New York (don't know about other states), every time a car is sold the state collects Sales Tax on it. So if a car passes through 5 owners. They are making tax revenue 5X on the same automobile. To me it's bull, and they're a bunch of crooks. It should be on the first transaction and that's it. Sorry Developers. A) Not everyone can afford to drop $60 on a new game, B) perhaps your content doesn't warrant the price. I buy most of my games used simply due to the fact I have a house/family I am responsible for, If I want 4 games, that's $240(plus tax, so about $260), that's groceries for the month. I'd rather eat than have the newest game.

[doxology]

Used games are not the same, A game is sold the number is added to the sales charts and revenue is given to the publisher, another person buys it for what is sometimes a lower price (its up to the buyer to see potential value there)

A downloaded game was never sold (except for the original copy) they don't give sales numbers or any revenue at all.

Publishers are greedy end of story, If i sell my Samsung TV to someone does that mean i have to pay Samsung again? heh maybe that's a good way to recover Sony's TV and Media division.

i think the guy is saying as far as the developer and publisher are concerned its similar because used game sales and pirating don't give the publisher or developer a new sale and no new revenue. as far as what is right, they are completely different things. Buying a used game still gives someone money, where pirating a game doesn't.

[Battlefield]

I mainly buy any new Guitar Hero releases at Gamestop, because they are cheaper than all competitors here. I think they have some special deal with Activision.

Besides that, i usually dont buy anything at Gamestop, and especially NOT used "new" games. They are only like 10% cheaper, and i rather pay 10% extra to get the game factory sealed.

On Topic: Its so damn expensive to make games these days that they must reach an amount of sales to be able to make more games. I know people that are "dumb" enough to buy new games "used" at gamestop, and thats overpriced. Those people should pay the 10% extra to get it. Some games comes with a 1 time online code for content, and you most likely dont get any code with a used game.
This cant be compared to piracy, but since a used game is sold at "full price", the devs should have gotten the moneyu instead so they could survive better.

[kurze]

What an ass hat. I have heard this argument before. What about used cars? Used clothes? What about rentals?

I remember when I was a kid we would borrow games from friends. Hell, I still do! Hes comparing theft (yes its "sharing too") to selling items preowned?

[Trashcat]

Selling your property is the same as stealing some1 else's, makes perfect sense.

[doxology]

Selling your property is the same as stealing some1 else's, makes perfect sense.

haven't some game publishers tried to push to say that you don't own the game you only license it. so selling it isn't right. thus used games are bad.

[So-Unreal]

buying a used game does not support the game so just download it... you are a fool if you buy used games for any reason. download the game and and go to the website and buy something.

[msanchez]

Well a pirate downloading a game is unlikely to actually be a potential sale that's lost; however, a person that pays $40 for a used game when the new one is $50 or $45 then that I can certainly see as a lost sale. The way I see it, companies that are in the business of selling used games should pay some fee to devs be that on a per game basis or paying a used game seller licensing fee. Gamestop and the like simply make too much money on used game sales, and this is fairly evident when you see how adamant they are about you buying used goods (games, accessories, hardware).

It's one thing if you buy a game off of an individual on ebay, or craigslist. This person is probably not making $1000's of dollars every few months in game sales, but when you sell in the volumes gamestop/eb do it just seems like you should be paying some type of fee. Also games shouldn't be allowed to be sold used until a certain amount of time passes after it's launch.


buying a used game does not support the game so just download it... you are a fool if you buy used games for any reason. download the game and and go to the website and buy something.

I agree with you on that.

[cafevincent]

It's only a matter of time...reselling games is going to be outlawed or tied down to a single console somehow. They can get away with anything because there is no change of nerds rioting. People need to stand up against corporate greed.

[msanchez]

It's only a matter of time...reselling games is going to be outlawed or tied down to a single console somehow. They can get away with anything because there is no change of nerds rioting. People need to stand up against corporate greed.

I'm all for that, but ALL CORPORATE GREED, not just developers wanting to get more money. As many have already stated, is there a better example of corporate greed than gamestop/eb giving you $25 for your game and reselling it at $40?

[danight]

25 is for new releases... shoot half the time your lucky to get 10 bux...
Old games are lucky to get 3 dollars.
Many games dont qualify for the trade 3 in get 10 extra dollars because the trade in value has to be over $2.00.

Think about that.. they wont even give you 2.00 dollars for a game.. but how many games do they sale for xbox 360 or ps3 or wii that cost 2.00 dollars?

Gamestop had a article about them supporting real theft a while back. People stealing mass amounts of brand new games and trying to trade them in. Like crack heads and gamestop was the dealer.

They suck badly... no thanks.. im not buying a used console thats $20.00 dollars cheaper and has been sitting in a bathroom getting pissed on literally. That alone should be illegal and should be a bio hazard.

[zecht]

Something I've wondered myself is why there is such a big deal made of piracy when: most pirated material would have never been purchased by the end user and is not resold for a profit unlike buying and selling used intellectual property and copyrighted material. It makes absolutely no sense why companies don't seem to be concerned with record stores, game stores and movie stores profiting off of their IP yet if you download some **** game or movie that will be played for 10 mintes and never touched again, you're a bad guy. Well hey, I might download your crappy game that I would have never even thought about renting in the first place, but at least i'm not making money off of it.

[Trashcat]

buying a used game does not support the game so just download it... you are a fool if you buy used games for any reason. download the game and and go to the website and buy something.
Thats not quite true, you may not be supporting developers of the game you buy used directly but your money is likely to go back to the industry since the person who sold you the game will use the money to buy a new game at some point.

[Mithos]

It's only a matter of time...reselling games is going to be outlawed or tied down to a single console somehow. They can get away with anything because there is no change of nerds rioting. People need to stand up against corporate greed.

Yeah and this is what will cause a global gamecrash, sales will drop BIG, I wouldn't be surpriced if a lot of devs go out of business when a move like the above is done, and maybe even Nintendo, Sony, MS will go bye bye then.

[wrathchild]

So people who buy used games are no better than pirates now? God dam people, is gaming just for the rich and not the poor?

[EL_CAD]

Multiplayer games are the same as piracy. Only one person paid for the game and the rest of the players are stealing from the developers.

[doxology]

So people who buy used games are no better than pirates now? God dam people, is gaming just for the rich and not the poor?

no people that buy used games aren't the same. however, i think most of the time the argument with pirating a game and something we hear repeatedly is that if you pirate a game you are stealing from the developer and publisher. a used game doesn't contribute to the developer or publisher. so if you are one of the people that thinks pirating is wrong because you aren't supporting the game dev in reality neither is a used game. you are only supporting a chain or an individual.

[Missalicious]

Multiplayer games are the same as piracy. Only one person paid for the game and the rest of the players are stealing from the developers.

I've wondered about that before too, there are bars locally that will have 'Guitar Hero' competition nights; since the bar is profiting, and they only buy one copy and say 20 people play, is that legal?

And the local resale store we have here is poop for overpricing the used games.. $20+ for a used game is ridiculous if you as me, someone else already bought it so the big company got their money, and when you trade in games they don't give you much for them, their profit margin must be huge!

[grapeape]

I've wondered about that before too, there are bars locally that will have 'Guitar Hero' competition nights; since the bar is profiting, and they only buy one copy and say 20 people play, is that legal?

And the local resale store we have here is poop for overpricing the used games.. $20+ for a used game is ridiculous if you as me, someone else already bought it so the big company got their money, and when you trade in games they don't give you much for them, their profit margin must be huge!

Technically no its not...if its done in a setting like that its considered a performance, just like a public place isnt supposed to play music without paying ascap for public performances....kinda jacked up but thats the state of things at the moment. Thats part of the reason I have such as issue with piracy...the only way to effect change is to work to make change...piracy imho works against that by basically "proving" the copyright holders case and strengthening their support from government and affinity groups.