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View Full Version : Opinion: Wii is actually the most 'hardcore' console?



Zeus
01-28-2010, 06:23 AM
GamePro has an interesting feature article in which they try to argue that the Wii is potentially the most 'hardcore' console of them all. They draw upon things like Wii Fit is clearly aimed at adults, games like Fire Emblem are truly designed to test brain cells and that a lot of people complete the 'easier' games very quickly.

<blockquote>There’s a lack of the kinds of adult dark-and-dirty games that do sell well on the Wii, yes. There’s limited Call of Duty support, there’s no Uncharted, and no real Final Fantasy. If developers and publishers put the effort into making one, rather than a light gun spin off (hello Resident Evil, Dead Space), minigame compilation or chibi-cute spin off, would it sell? I think so.

Nintendo isn’t the perfect company, and its grooming of the next generation of gamers through the “casual game” experiences has, fairly or unfairly, left some of its veterans disaffected. However, the claims that its game offerings are somehow less hardcore or less adult than what is available on the PS3 or Xbox 360 is ridiculous. It might be the kind of 'mature' that doesn’t involve gratuitous violence, and it might be the kind of 'hardcore' that is hidden under a childish polish, but they are there, and what’s more, they sell. </blockquote>

News Source: <a href="http://www.gamepro.com.au/article/334264/nintendo_wii_ultimate_hardcore_console_/" target="_blank">GamePro</a>

tech3475
01-28-2010, 07:17 AM
The fact remains though that it has the most **** for any current system besides the DS.

cafevincent
01-28-2010, 09:18 AM
It might be the kind of 'mature' that doesn’t involve gratuitous violence, and it might be the kind of 'hardcore' that is hidden under a childish polish, but they are there, and what’s more, they sell.

I agree. I want to add that the violence is not really mature because they're aimed at teens and only teens are obsessed with that theme. Go figure. And when you think about that it really makes the whole theme the most childish or them all. Older gamers appreciate the underlying gameplay elements that make a game great and don't really care if it's bloody realistic or whatever. In fact I believe if they had a choice most of them would choose some original style over gore. Unless you're trying to be goth and impress your goth friends or rebel your parents.

I'm not sure if Wii is the MOST hardcore. I mean half of it's first & second party games pretty much kick every other games butt in their genres in terms of gameplay, fun & quality not to mention the amount of splitscreen support but there is way too few driving games, for example. Excite Truck sure beats every other driving game AFTER a few hours of training but that's only one game and the last good driving game on a Nintendo platform was R.C. Pro-Am on NES. I'm excluding the great Mario Karts as they are not really about the thrill of driving & speed but the thrill of warfare on wheels. So to summarise we need games like RalliSport Challenge for Nintendo.

cafevincent
01-28-2010, 09:24 AM
The fact remains though that it has the most **** for any current system besides the DS.

And you care about the amount of crap why? Are they shoveling it to your doorstep? It's not like it's any harder to know which games are worth buying. If 360/PS3 was the most popular console then the most shovelware would be for that system, on top of the other games. The good games are what matter (and for me it's the non-realistic quality original ones that get my attention).

CharmedonWB
01-28-2010, 10:53 AM
I agree. I want to add that the violence is not really mature because they're aimed at teens and only teens are obsessed with that theme. Go figure. And when you think about that it really makes the whole theme the most childish or them all. Older gamers appreciate the underlying gameplay elements that make a game great and don't really care if it's bloody realistic or whatever. In fact I believe if they had a choice most of them would choose some original style over gore. Unless you're trying to be goth and impress your goth friends or rebel your parents.

I'm not sure if Wii is the MOST hardcore. I mean half of it's first & second party games pretty much kick every other games butt in their genres in terms of gameplay, fun & quality not to mention the amount of splitscreen support but there is way too few driving games, for example. Excite Truck sure beats every other driving game AFTER a few hours of training but that's only one game and the last good driving game on a Nintendo platform was R.C. Pro-Am on NES. I'm excluding the great Mario Karts as they are not really about the thrill of driving & speed but the thrill of warfare on wheels. So to summarise we need games like RalliSport Challenge for Nintendo.

Cafe, thank you for your intelligent argument. I am a grown man and feel the same way you do. I am tired of hearing that Nintendo is not hardcore enough. It is not Nintendo's fault that Capcom keeps making RE rails games instead of giving us a real Resident Evil. RE 5 could easily work on the Wii, perhaps it might not look as polished but it would play the same way and it could have sold as well or more than either the PS3 or the 360. I mean look at Resident Evil 4...it sold 1.6 M copies on the Wii and that was a GC game whereas RE5 sold 2.7 M on the PS3 and 2.5 M on the 360. Could RE 5 on the Wii sell 2.7 M? Absolutely.

Those who keep claiming that violence and gore make a game Mature are usually stupid teenagers. Adults and I am not talking about those who have yet to grow up are more concerned with gameplay and replay value--especially when we know how difficult it is to earn a Dollar, Euro, Pound, etc.

Thanks again for having something of worth to say! Cheers.

CZroe
01-28-2010, 12:29 PM
The GameCube was the most hardcore console of the last generation. The PS2 was mainstream, the XBOX was for those who only cared about graphics/performance, and the GameCube was the best of both worlds (better performance than PS2, better games/exclusives than XBOX) that only the most hardcore would own, usually for the incredible first-party games. Because many of the first party Wii games are for the new, expanded, audience many hardcore players feel shafted but, if you start counting, Nintendo has done almost as much for the hardcore this generation as the last (serious entries from all major franchises). Just because they have been overshadowed by all the "Blue Ocean" games and sales doesn't mean that they aren't there. As for third party support damaging their and their platform's reputation, the PS2 had the highest ratio of crap before it (by FAR) and it didn't seem to hurt it much.

No matter how you look at it, most of those same hardcore GCN owners probably own Wii consoles. FWIW, my definition of "hardcore" excludes anyone who started gaming with the N64/PSX/Saturn gen and never looked back. Anyone gaming before that knows what makes the GCN "hardcore" and the PS2 "mainstream." For one thing, the GCN was made for them.

ok123
01-28-2010, 12:33 PM
It seems to me that the author of the GamePro article says that games that are mostly played by adults are pretty much the same same as hardcore games. The article does say "hardcore elements" and not "hardcore games" though, but personally i dont know if a game should be described as a hardcore game (or as a game with hardcore elements) just because many adults play the game. A lot of games might be described as having hardcore elements, but does a game become a hardcore game overall because a game has some elements that might be described as hardcore elements?

I think that it is likely that more adults uses Wii Fit compared to how many kids that uses Wii Fit, i agree to that, but does that make Wii Fit a hardcore game though? If my mother uses Wii Fit 2-3 times a week, and that is all that she plays, does that makes her a hardcore gamer? Personally i dont think so. Surely hardcore games are most likely played by a more adult audience, but i dont think that the age of the players is what defines a "hardcore game", i think it is more about what the game itself is all about.

I dont really know how to describe what a "hardcore game" is, but if i should try, i would say that it is a game that appeal more to people who usually play games and that are interested in games and not a game that appeals to basicly everyone. For example, Gears of War will most likely not appeal to everyone (i dont think that for example my parents has much interest in playing a violent 3rd or 1st person shooter), while a game like Wii Fit has a better chance to appeal to basicly everyone.


I think that the Gamepro article is mostly trying to explain that the Wii is not only for kids, and that is very true, at least in my opinion, and i fully agree on the article about this. The Wii has many games that appeals to adults, and the Wii also has many games that appeals to both adults and kids :) But personally i wouldnt say that the Wii is the ultimate hardcore console (to be fair, the article has a question mark after "Nintendo Wii: the ultimate hardcore console", so it seems to be more of a question rather than a statement though), at least not compared to the games that excist on the PS3 and on the Xbox 360. The Wii definitely has some hardcore games, but i think that both the PS3 and the Xbox 360 has more hardcore games compared to how many Wii hardcore games that excist.

CharmedonWB
01-28-2010, 01:32 PM
What exactly makes a game hardcore? Its mature rating? Its genre? Honestly, I do not think there is a such thing as hardcore. I think it is a term that gamer geeks cooked up to have some kind of elite status. Usually I see hardcore thrown about with mostly violent or mature rated games but does that really make a hardcore game? I mean is Civilization hardcore, Mario, Zelda, Oblivion, Dragon Age, Final Fantasy? Is Sim City hardcore? Are the Sims games hardcore? Is Little Big Planet hardcore? What about Viva Piñata and Pokemon? How about Mario Kart, can that qualify as hardcore? How about Heroes of Might and Magic, Warcraft or Diablo?

ok123
01-28-2010, 10:09 PM
What exactly makes a game hardcore? Its mature rating? Its genre? Honestly, I do not think there is a such thing as hardcore. I think it is a term that gamer geeks cooked up to have some kind of elite status. Usually I see hardcore thrown about with mostly violent or mature rated games but does that really make a hardcore game?
I understand what you mean. Maybe it was concidered more as an elite status back in the days to call certain games as "hardcore games", that gamers like to have games that was "only" ment for gamers, if you know what i mean? But today there are a lot of games that people will describe as "hardcore games", so personally i dont think that there is much elite status around so-called "hardcore games" today because there are so many games out there and so many active gamers today (there were many active gamers back in the days as well though, but at least i would guess that there are more active gamers today compared to like 15-20 years ago). I think that "hardcore games" is more of a description to describe who the game mostly appeals to :)

But i think that it is a good question to ask what exactly "hardcore games" is. Personally i think that "hardcore games" and "casual games" are mostly used as a description to who the games appeal the most to. I dont think that there is eaxctly any statistics or anything like that gives a 100% correct answer to this, but i think that most people will guess/assume that games like Gears of War and God of War (just to take 2 examples) are games that mostly appeals to people who are more than average interested in games in general (more of a hardcore gamer) and that these games doesnt appeal that much to people who people that are less interested in games in general (more of a casual gamer). Games like Lets Dance and Wii Fit are probably games that appeals more to people who are less interested in games in general.

But of course, there are probably people who are very interested in games in general and that plays a lot of games that also are interested in Lets Dance and Wii Fit as well, but looking at people in general, i think that Lets Dance and Wii Fit appeals more to the casual gamer. But as said, i dont think there are any facts around give an 100% accurate answer to this, so this is just guessing from my side :)



I mean is Civilization hardcore, Mario, Zelda, Oblivion, Dragon Age, Final Fantasy? Is Sim City hardcore? Are the Sims games hardcore? Is Little Big Planet hardcore? What about Viva Piñata and Pokemon? How about Mario Kart, can that qualify as hardcore? How about Heroes of Might and Magic, Warcraft or Diablo?
I havnt played all of these games myself, so i dont have too much experience about all of these games, but i would say that Oblivion and Dragon Age might be more described as hardcore games. The reason for this is because i cant really imagine that for example my mother (which i would say is a casual gamer) would have much interest in playing these games. But of course, there are probably people who arent really that interested in games in general that might be interested in playing Oblivion and/or Dragon Age.

The other games, such as Mario, The Sims and Little Big Planet etc. are games that i can see that both casual gamers and hardcore gamers are interested in playing, so i think that these types of games can both be described as causal games and hardcore games. Or maybe they can be called something like "games for everyone", or something like that :)

But i dont think that there is really any key answer to which games that can be called "hardcore games" because people who are very intersted in games in general might be interested in playing the so-called "causual games", and there are probably some people who are less interested in games that actually plays for example Gears of War and/or God of War. But when people describes a game as a "hardcore game" or as a "casual game", i would guess that it is more of an assumtion to who the game appeals the most to looking at people in general.

I am sorry that i dont really have any better answer than this, but i think that it is an interesting and a good question :) I guess that the most important thing is that people enjoy the games, no matter if the games are being described as "hardcore games" or as "casual games" :)

nexistjamais
01-30-2010, 01:36 PM
This "hardcore" stuff makes no sense. What is a "hardcore" gamer? That term is something that dorky teenagers who have nothing else to do but play video games use to make themselves feel better about not having anything else to do.

When I buy and play a game, I look for "fun." After, all, games are toys that I use for entertainment when I have unstructured free time. "Hardcore?" "Casual?" Both are utterly meaningless and are nowhere near as important as fun.

I really think that the Industry types hype up that word "hardcore" to distract from the fact that so many of their games are Yet Another First Person Shooter. You know, the same game you've been playing since 1994. They try to claim, "Our game isn't derivative and boring! It's got blood and guts and scantilly clad female characters with boobs bigger than the most ridiculous implant job so it's 'hardcore!'" Then a line of dorky males lines up to buy the thing so they can show their dorky friends how "hardcore" they are.