Sony trashes Kinect, claims it has 'big' technology problems

[Zeus]

You can view the page at http://www.maxconsole.net/content.php?43226-Sony-trashes-Kinect-claims-it-has-big-technology-problems

[SLAYERPSP]

its selling better then move the wii clone. i give ms props for trying something different but its not for me, i need a good old fashioned controller with rumble in it Sony forgot about that when the ps3 came out oh thats right they didnt want to pay for it since they dont own the patents. Please dont for got all of Sony lyies

[Tsujin]

Despite whome he may work for, he's right, Microsoft crippled the tech from its original specs which limit what this generation will be able to do, hopefully for their next console they include a version of kinect with specs closer to what was originally intended by it's israeli creators.

[mattias800]

I don't give props for that. I bought Kinect, tried it, found out that it doesn't work here at all, unless I remove my couch. €149 down the drain.

Bash Move all you want, but at least it fucking works and there are good games coming.

[poxhacker]

Wasn't the Kinect supposed to use it's own processor and not use the Xbox's?

[urmaster]

I agree with him, 30fps is a little odd for an input device and that resolution is horrible, but you know what it's pretty darn good for USB 2.0! I would like Sony to do better… hold on they actually might be able to do it without the MS xbox tax… Either way it’s the software that counts and at least kinect is bringing semi-fresh material as well as new possibilities. Hate to say it but so far I haven’t seen much from move that the eye alone or Wii with motion plus can’t do.

[pspmte]

Sony can bash Kinect lol
Sony the move is not a patch on the wii mote, i hated the move design and responce and that supid ball at the end
Kinect is great for Kids but i dont like the fact you can only move in the box the camera sees, Kinect is for the future of PC control (Good Mouse) Marcan saw that i think in his hack
Wii wins in my book for gaming
The wii was the idea that started this lot off, im sure the wii2 will blow move and kinect out of the water

[billysastard]

its selling better then move the wii clone. i give ms props for trying something different

its advertised far more heavily than move, for crying out loud its advertised so heavily that people are buying it and only then discovering that its not compatible with their houses, as to something different, it really isnt, its only doing what the wiimotion camera did a year earlier, you can play racket sports "controller free" on wii just like kinect.

[WillRoberts]

Anybody who has Kinect will have to admit that it kicks the wii and Move right into touch.

It is fantastic.

[Brandogg]

I could be wrong, but I believe (just like the Eye Toy in PS Move) Kinect's camera is 640x480. I'm pretty sure an old MaxConsole "report" put it at 320x480, but that was either the minimum spec used, or just wrongly reported, because it's a full VGA resolution camera.

[Tsujin]

I could be wrong, but I believe (just like the Eye Toy in PS Move) Kinect's camera is 640x480. I'm pretty sure an old MaxConsole "report" put it at 320x480, but that was either the minimum spec used, or just wrongly reported, because it's a full VGA resolution camera.
you are wrong, kinect's "brains" are in it's depth sensor, which reads a resolution of 320x240, it does have a 640x480 camera to go with that, but that only used as a standard camera.
Once more, if you want to do tracking of a 3d object and apply data pulled from the vga camera to that object, you have to drop the framerate to 15fps (a limitation of the current XDK), with the addional mapping the system resources required skyrocket, too.

Due to physical limitations on the hardware, and for the way that hardware is used (ir, passed through a sub processor, passed to the 360's cpu), the absolute minimum time between the camera emitting it's ir grid, seeing the grid, converting that grid into usable data and sending it to the cpu to be used, there will always be lag, it's not something developers can "patch" "fix" or "remove with updates", it's a physical limitation of the technology.

[iloveme28]

i have had move and it didnt impress me that much, it was the the exact same as having a wii so i dont really see much point in it, unless you dont have a wii

What is kinect like ? Ive not had a chance to have a go on one yet

[urmaster]

...it's a physical limitation of the technology.
The current technology to be precise, I would love to see it at its full potential. I'm talking 1080p VGA and IR output with some on board processing of bones and depth data. One can hope such a product comes to fruition but unless they make a kinect 2 for the next xbox running over USB 3.0 or lightpeak I don't see it happening even outside of other business areas.

[Tsujin]

The current technology to be precise, I would love to see it at its full potential. I'm talking 1080p VGA and IR output with some on board processing of bones and depth data. One can hope such a product comes to fruition but unless they make a kinect 2 for the next xbox running over USB 3.0 or lightpeak I don't see it happening even outside of other business areas.
Even with a higher resolution camera the hardware would have a physical limit to throughput, i.e. lag.

[danight]

Even with a higher resolution camera the hardware would have a physical limit to throughput, i.e. lag.

so why does the camera res matter? Clearly its the power to read the data and process the data. Because the movement is not going be translated into a perfect replica of you on tv why have a high powered camera that would cost even more to make?

yes phone calls may look better with a high power camera but there is no game code needed then. So for gaming a low res camera seems like a smarter choice than a high res.
Kinda like a console doing 1080p this gen when they dont have the power to.

[Nomad121]

It's Anton Mikhailov, he has every right to criticise.

[dvhh]

The kinect is not that bad but not that much adapted for games yet, but for personnal computing it has so much potential. I think that before a year microsoft would produce some wii like controller in addition to the kinect (for physical buttons mostly).

[Tsujin]

so why does the camera res matter? Clearly its the power to read the data and process the data. Because the movement is not going be translated into a perfect replica of you on tv why have a high powered camera that would cost even more to make?
Accuracy and lag are different issues entirely.

[Anil8tr]

Even with a higher resolution camera the hardware would have a physical limit to throughput, i.e. lag.

Even with these limitations people keep saying it has, Kinect performs as advertised. The only lag I've seen is on the Kinect Hub in the Dashboard. Who knows if that's even Kinect or just NXE as it's slow to begin with at times. When I'm playing games, it is damn responsive. And in the end, that's all I really care about.

[DKing91]

Okay, Sony has to know two things which are vital to keeping its respect:

1. Dissing your competition is lame, especially when they don't care much to retort your attacks. It makes you look like you're fighting for survival.

2. The aforementioned rule can only be overruled if the person doing the dissing is Kevin Butler. Then it's just badass.

[clyderadcliffe]

you are wrong, kinect's "brains" are in it's depth sensor, which reads a resolution of 320x240, it does have a 640x480 camera to go with that, but that only used as a standard camera.
Once more, if you want to do tracking of a 3d object and apply data pulled from the vga camera to that object, you have to drop the framerate to 15fps (a limitation of the current XDK), with the addional mapping the system resources required skyrocket, too.

Due to physical limitations on the hardware, and for the way that hardware is used (ir, passed through a sub processor, passed to the 360's cpu), the absolute minimum time between the camera emitting it's ir grid, seeing the grid, converting that grid into usable data and sending it to the cpu to be used, there will always be lag, it's not something developers can "patch" "fix" or "remove with updates", it's a physical limitation of the technology.

Wrong again...

Wikipedia:

Resolution 640×480 pixels @ 30 Hz (RGB camera)
640×480 pixels @ 30 Hz (IR depth-finding camera)[6]

http://displaydaily.com/2010/11/24/microsoft-does-a-180-on-kinect-for-xbox-360/


...or maybe real resolution is even higher... From the OpenKinect Project:

http://groups.google.com/group/openkinect/browse_thread/thread/6539281cf451ae9e/986fc15533bed3c9

Turns out the scaled down raw IR image that we can stream from the
Kinect is 640x488, so it loses 8 pixels in both the X and Y dimensions.
We just don't see the lost Y because the image is truncated there, while
the missing X pixels are padded.
The actual raw IR acquisition image is likely 1280x976 (from a 1280x1024
sensor, windowing off the extra Y pixels), and from that it derives a

[Tsujin]

Wrong again...

Wikipedia:

Resolution 640×480 pixels @ 30 Hz (RGB camera)
640×480 pixels @ 30 Hz (IR depth-finding camera)[6]

http://displaydaily.com/2010/11/24/microsoft-does-a-180-on-kinect-for-xbox-360/


...or maybe real resolution is even higher... From the OpenKinect Project:

http://groups.google.com/group/openkinect/browse_thread/thread/6539281cf451ae9e/986fc15533bed3c9

Turns out the scaled down raw IR image that we can stream from the
Kinect is 640x488, so it loses 8 pixels in both the X and Y dimensions.
We just don't see the lost Y because the image is truncated there, while
the missing X pixels are padded.
The actual raw IR acquisition image is likely 1280x976 (from a 1280x1024
sensor, windowing off the extra Y pixels), and from that it derives a

i said it READS a 320x240 depth map, if you want to go pull out some chatter from people using hacked hardware on their PC's feel free, however xbox devkits and XDK force a limit of 320x240 for ALL software, thus for xbox 360 the hardware is limited to 320x240 as i said.

[DEDDOA]

Ah so Kinect isn't as bad as they hoped, only see trash talk like this when there is some genuine threat or the device in question is techically bettr than expected even with apparent weak tech geek stats.

If Kinect was genunely that bad and Move was better they wouldn't even bother commenting, read between the lines and it sounds like the same type of aggresivly defensive response fanboys give when they know somthing they have isn't as good as they think others have.

kinect works and works much better than any of us really expected, doesn't matter what the cam resolution is or the alleged pulled out of his arse CPU usage, they managed to get it to work and clearly Sony was expecting a major flop as the early videos sugested it would be.

[urmaster]

Even with a higher resolution camera the hardware would have a physical limit to throughput, i.e. lag.
I know, I don't mean Kinect as it is now. I would like to see one that has the accuracy to pick out your fingers, one with more bones and so on. I just feel that Kinect is actually before its time and unless it gets a solid line of software it could damage their prospects of revising the hardware for future gaming purposes.

[Xenogears V]

Nothing is perfect. For sure Move is better then Wii remote, and Kinect is better then Eyetoy Camera. Kinect is annoying for lags, and it is everything else precise.

[danight]

I dont think move is better than wii motes. Wii motes are based on years of games and have characters like mario and zelda. Unless sony plans to do kevin butler carts or something... move just cant play those games.

price.... look how cheap it is to play with wii motes vs what it cost to play with move.

just 2 major things, game library and price alone make wii motes better. also wii has motion plus to help make it more accurate. But its to late in the gen to try and push move as a wii killer when wii owns the world and still sells like crazy. Move will rely on current ps3 owners for sales.

[billysastard]

Nothing is perfect.

true


For sure Move is better then Wii remote,

no it isnt, in terms of detection its equal but it has other features missing (like a joypad, a speaker and motion sensing in the navigation controller)

[DanASBO]

no it isnt, in terms of detection its equal but it has other features missing (like a joypad, a speaker and motion sensing in the navigation controller)

Plain wrong. Move is more far more accurate than the Wii Remote... sans Plus, and it's not missing any features, it has a few different ones but it's not "missing" anything.

[urmaster]

Plain wrong. Move is more far more accurate than the Wii Remote... sans Plus, and it's not missing any features, it has a few different ones but it's not "missing" anything.
Why disregard motion plus? It's built into the controller now and is an extension of an existing system just like move. The only thing that move has going for it is the ball detection; the wii remote looks far more elegant in that regard.

[Jish]

I don't give props for that. I bought Kinect, tried it, found out that it doesn't work here at all, unless I remove my couch. €149 down the drain.

Bash Move all you want, but at least it fucking works and there are good games coming.

Obviously I don't know the dimensions you are working with in your living/game room. However, I was actually very impressed on how the Kinect recognized furniture (in my fairly cramped living room), like my couch and disregarded, this was very apparent in Dance Central (you could see the couch in the silhouette and then the processor disregarded it and it only captured body movements.
One thing I don't understand is, if you are coming to a site like this....so much that you are actually commenting on a topic. You probably should have understood the minimum gaming dimensions the Kinect requires, it was in the topics every day for sometime in one way or another. Basically, if I were to hazard a guess, I would bet you actually never bought the Kinect and merely repeated the same rhetoric that has been going on since BEFORE the Kinect was released. </br>
Having said that, to comment on your last line. I agree that the Move does indeed work very well. I've only played it for a few hours at my friends and it was accurate, but the Kinect works too and I have been very impressed thus far.</br>