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View Full Version : Article: Microsoft doesn't sue hackers, it works with them



osnoozeo
05-30-2011, 02:03 PM
You can view the page at http://www.maxconsole.net/content.php?45971-Microsoft-doesn-t-sue-hackers-it-works-with-them

wewii
05-30-2011, 02:13 PM
Nurture how?

00-360 - License to Hack? :confused:

LOL:p

Battlefield
05-30-2011, 02:38 PM
Its no point in sueing a 14 year old anyway, or anyone who most likely can never pay $ for their "crimes".

kyjoe9
05-30-2011, 02:44 PM
sue this kids parents! parents need to disipline their kids!

Clxmj
05-30-2011, 03:00 PM
Already been reported as untrue.

http://kotaku.com/5805742/microsoft-is-helping-an-xbox-live-hacker-develop-his-talent

Hamsterman-SWE
05-30-2011, 03:38 PM
Well either way nobody got sued, that's a good thing in this story. However if this was sony that would be a another story.;)

Xenogears V
05-30-2011, 06:50 PM
Yeah, yeah.

danight
05-30-2011, 07:16 PM
I know its old but still funny. :p

http://mobile.techcores.com/2011/01/microsoft-endorses-windows-phone-jailbreaking/


After Geohot’s tweet about making a Windows Phone 7 jailbreak, Microsoft was actually willing to give Geohot a Windows Phone. Here’s the tweet from Microsoft: “#geohot if you want to build cool stuff on #wp7, send me email and the team will give you a phone – let dev creativity flourish #wp7dev”.

Microsoft is a trip if nothing else. At the time when sony wanted geohots head on a stick. Microsoft wanted to give him a free phone. I wonder if he ever emailed them?

msanchez
05-30-2011, 10:08 PM
Yeah I don't think ms is going to be handing out applications to anybody that does a glitch in call of duty... for what I hear the entire game is one big glitch. Seriously though, IF the hack was something more sophisticated I don't doubt ms would reach out to the person, or at the very least try to figure out how it happened, and stop it on the technical level... as opposed to some other company who shall remain nameless.

HyperG
05-30-2011, 10:15 PM
If you come off ignorant then of course they will not want to work with anyone... anyone intelligent in breaking programs to doing what you shouldn't is always a benefit for a company to have.

DrEggman
05-30-2011, 11:28 PM
Have we all forgotten hacker history with MS?! The Xbox 1 alone...
-_-

unwanted
05-31-2011, 03:49 AM
nurture the kid's talents to cheat? so when are companies gonna use anti cheat servers and software for their games... little kids that hack games to cheat wreck online games...

osnoozeo
05-31-2011, 04:34 AM
i mean the whole thing was handled alot better than sony, Ever handled any of there ****! also ive mentioned it atleast 20times, but on the front page ceo of sony doesnt know y they were attacked! lol!!!

iTz FiNaL
05-31-2011, 06:47 AM
Not only is this old news, it is also false news

http://kotaku.com/5805742/microsoft-is-helping-an-xbox-live-hacker-develop-his-talent

Retroboy
05-31-2011, 06:57 AM
even if it was true, theres a BIG difference in hacking a game not owend by MS and someone hacking MS software, like sony did with hackers hacking its FW.

the fact is that hackers was hacking the fw and releasing it to the public, the fact that sony kept blocking the hacks and the hackers kept hacking, end of the day its sonys company if they choose to stop hackers through courts thats upto them.

the only people who has a problem with this are the fanboys who love to hate sony regardless and those who hate sony because theyre blocking the hacks.

end of the day i have a ps3 with cfw because i choose to have it, but i dont cry because sony do not want to support it. why should they.

shakoor_h
05-31-2011, 07:00 AM
even if it was true, theres a BIG difference in hacking a game not owend by MS and someone hacking MS software, like sony did with hackers hacking its FW.

the fact is that hackers was hacking the fw and releasing it to the public, the fact that sony kept blocking the hacks and the hackers kept hacking, end of the day its sonys company if they choose to stop hackers through courts thats upto them.

the only people who has a problem with this are the fanboys who love to hate sony regardless and those who hate sony because theyre blocking the hacks.

end of the day i have a ps3 with cfw because i choose to have it, but i dont cry because sony do not want to support it. why should they.

QFT. I don't see why other people don't understand this. Sony shouldn't support hackers, if they did their publishing partners would be pissed, it is natural for a company to protect it's product, if you want to hack it, it's up to you, but if you release all the info to the public on your blog, AND you were dumb enough not to stay anonymous, what do you expect?

Retroboy
05-31-2011, 07:18 AM
QFT. I don't see why other people don't understand this. Sony shouldn't support hackers, if they did their publishing partners would be pissed, it is natural for a company to protect it's product, if you want to hack it, it's up to you, but if you release all the info to the public on your blog, AND you were dumb enough not to stay anonymous, what do you expect?

funny to see that someone else out there can see this.

instead we see anything sony related the fanboys start bashing them, (more recently because of sony stoping hackers hacking the ps3) making up facts that arent 100% true and kick off when you try saying this to them.

We get it, you hate sony, you dont have to keep telling us in every single topic, if you dont like sony, why are you in the topics?

msanchez
05-31-2011, 07:25 AM
QFT. I don't see why other people don't understand this. Sony shouldn't support hackers, if they did their publishing partners would be pissed, it is natural for a company to protect it's product, if you want to hack it, it's up to you, but if you release all the info to the public on your blog, AND you were dumb enough not to stay anonymous, what do you expect?

Well I'm quite sure the publishers, investors, their grandmas' are much happier with the way sony handled the situation and the way things played out :rolleyes:

It's not a matter of "supporting" hackers, but coming off your high horse and admiting when you've been had and acting like mature people. Instead of going all "SUE THE INTERNETSSS... DO YOU HEAR ME? SUUUUUEEEE THE INTERNETSSSS" they should have taken the time to learn what was wrong, and fix it. Scary tactics will not work on everybody.

What I don't understand is how some of you can still defend sony's actions, not because it goes against hackers, not because you don't hate them, but because the facts have proven that their actions were WRONG! You tell me, what good came of resorting to the courts? the saying "adding fuel to the fire" holds very true in this case.

All in all, even if MS were to hire some kid for hacking we all should understand that they wouldn't normally want that info leaking because it's one thing to make a business decision of working with someone you rather have as an ally than an enemy, and quite another to paint a bulls-eye on yourself and shout "If you can hit me, I'll pay you"


..(more recently because of sony stoping hackers hacking the ps3) ...



LOL! the way you can totally block out reality is mesmerizing... or sad... or disgusting... maybe all 3, but probably more disgusting than anything else. Oh and hey... you do remember the PSN was utterly violated right?... wait a second, you're clueless, stringer is clueless... you have an undying love for sony... stringer looks to have some "weird" needs.... .... I rather not delve deeper into this.

wiggim
05-31-2011, 07:25 AM
even if it was true, theres a BIG difference in hacking a game not owend by MS and someone hacking MS software, like sony did with hackers hacking its FW.

the fact is that hackers was hacking the fw and releasing it to the public, the fact that sony kept blocking the hacks and the hackers kept hacking, end of the day its sonys company if they choose to stop hackers through courts thats upto them.

the only people who has a problem with this are the fanboys who love to hate sony regardless and those who hate sony because theyre blocking the hacks.

end of the day i have a ps3 with cfw because i choose to have it, but i dont cry because sony do not want to support it. why should they.

Well - first no one ACTUALLY hacked the PS3 firmware. Granted the PS3jailbreak was kind of a hack used as a stepping stone - but more of an exploit of a USB library sony used (outdated of course)
The 'hackers' simply got sonys private signing key by doing algebra, with really big numbers. Unlike every other gaming console ever released (aside from cartridge and DC games) the console required a standard USB stick to be hacked. This was only because the PS3 don't just 'run' things, they need to be installed. If there was a way to do this from a retail console a CFW would have never appeared.

On to the point - Sony could have hired the hackers to use their knowledge to protect against future hacks, patch the current hacks, or use their knowledge from OTHER companies (which sony LOVES) to improve theirs. This isn't exactly supporting them, rather its investing in your companys assets. If someone who has no formal knowledge of your product can make it do the one thing you try to diligently to prevent, Its likley wise not to cross them.

Any software developer should encourage you to find exploits, flaws, problems or oversights in their software so it can be improved. No other gaming company has raided and sued tinkerers of their devices but sony. They made it clear they do NOT want that to happen, and we all know where it lead them.

Retroboy
05-31-2011, 07:46 AM
ok


What I don't understand is how some of you can still defend sony's actions, not because it goes against hackers, not because you don't hate them, but because the facts have proven that their actions were WRONG!so please state exactly whats wrong, someone hacks your software/product you as a company has no legal right to stop them? ohhh wait no in your blinded world companys MUST work with hackers, erm why when sony can stop them with a update, the fact remains that hacker would have then hacked the next update ect ect ect.

so what do you do, keep blocking the hacker or attack the hacker and take him out the picture???


Any software developer should encourage you to find exploits, flaws, problems or oversights in their software so it can be improved. No other gaming company has raided and sued tinkerers of their devices but sony. They made it clear they do NOT want that to happen, and we all know where it lead them. end of the day your still crying because sony sued, so what, its upto them how they act against hackers, the fact remains the PS3 isnt wide open to piracy like the 360 and wii, and i sometimes wonder if this is why so many of you are crying...

end of if sony sue hackers, it doesnt affect you, so whats the big deal??

msanchez
05-31-2011, 08:12 AM
ok



so please state exactly whats wrong, someone hacks your software/product you as a company has no legal right to stop them? ohhh wait no in your blinded world companys MUST work with hackers, erm why when sony can stop them with a update, the fact remains that hacker would have then hacked the next update ect ect ect.

so what do you do, keep blocking the hacker or attack the hacker and take him out the picture???



end of the day your still crying because sony sued, so what, its upto them how they act against hackers, the fact remains the PS3 isnt wide open to piracy like the 360 and wii, and i sometimes wonder if this is why so many of you are crying...

They stopped nothing, take the hacker out of the picture you say? LOL

What's wrong you ask? ... did you hear about the recent PSN/sony website hacks? and you ask what's wrong?

As far as my personal motives (don't know about wiggim), I can assure you it has nothing to do with hackers being sued. I've always said it was a waste of time, but I'm not trying to be their knight in shinning armor. They're big boys, if they can bring sony to their knees, then my assistance is not really needed. My problem, was/is/will be the removal of OtherOS, THAT'S my reason for rejoicing so much now that karma is raining down on sony.

I merely understood from the beginning that sony's actions would lead to this, or have you forgotten how many times many of us warned you to tell your overlords what the result of them pushing hackers would be? Heck even we were wrong I think, cause we didn't expect sony to be so inept at securing their network, and so we could have never pondered the degree to which they were going to get PWNED!

The fact, not the opinion, is that sony's actions are directly responsible for the whole fiasco... and you still talk about hackers being stopped? and the court debacle being the right way to go about things?... you truly deserve a job at sony because you are just as clueless and set in your ways as they are. Reality, is smacking you in the face and yet you put your hands up and yell "LALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU" in a feeble attempt to block out it's unrelenting face bashing.

News flash, HACKERS are still hacking away at sony websites, homebrew devs are still updating their software, and pirates are still playing their pirated games. Just because you chose to actively ignore it doesn't mean it's not happening.

croatoan
05-31-2011, 09:37 AM
They stopped nothing, take the hacker out of the picture you say? LOL

What's wrong you ask? ... did you hear about the recent PSN/sony website hacks? and you ask what's wrong?

As far as my personal motives (don't know about wiggim), I can assure you it has nothing to do with hackers being sued. I've always said it was a waste of time, but I'm not trying to be their knight in shinning armor. They're big boys, if they can bring sony to their knees, then my assistance is not really needed. My problem, was/is/will be the removal of OtherOS, THAT'S my reason for rejoicing so much now that karma is raining down on sony.

I merely understood from the beginning that sony's actions would lead to this, or have you forgotten how many times many of us warned you to tell your overlords what the result of them pushing hackers would be? Heck even we were wrong I think, cause we didn't expect sony to be so inept at securing their network, and so we could have never pondered the degree to which they were going to get PWNED!

The fact, not the opinion, is that sony's actions are directly responsible for the whole fiasco... and you still talk about hackers being stopped? and the court debacle being the right way to go about things?... you truly deserve a job at sony because you are just as clueless and set in your ways as they are. Reality, is smacking you in the face and yet you put your hands up and yell "LALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU" in a feeble attempt to block out it's unrelenting face bashing.

News flash, HACKERS are still hacking away at sony websites, homebrew devs are still updating their software, and pirates are still playing their pirated games. Just because you chose to actively ignore it doesn't mean it's not happening.

THE FACT is the hackers did it themselves, sony are not directly responsible for someone elses keyboard presses. Sony had every right to drag people into court for breach of copyright. They made a bad choice which got them burnt. So get off your moral high horse. The hacking has gone past the point where it is just Sony that has been hurt. When it affects legitimate users and credit card details. Enough is enough.

Yes they did deserve a backlash but dont start hailing the hackers as blameless and sticking it to "the man". as clearly now they are not. Just fucking decent people off

Calidrifter
05-31-2011, 09:38 AM
The fact, not the opinion, is that sony's actions are directly responsible for the whole fiasco..
That would be an opinion. You can't back up this 'fact'. People are going to disagree on where the blame should be placed.

msanchez
05-31-2011, 10:09 AM
...They made a bad choice which got them burnt...

This is all I'm saying, so you just agreed with me. Am I not allowed to laugh my ass off at sony's idiocy now? I'm not personally doing anything to them, merely enjoying the show they so graciously put on.

I've never questioned their right to sue the internets, in fact, I have ALWAYS said that had they tried the scare tactics on geohot instead of removing OtherOS, then maybe I'd be more sympathetic with some of their actions; all that I've always questioned, rather said, is that sony's court crusade will do more harm than good, and lo and behold the results.

I have never said that I support the theft of data, my data is also on there afterall, but I will try to take the situation in stride, and laugh at what I can. True until Anonymous got involved I did wholefuly agree with everything, including PSN being down. Sure you have to place some blame on the hackers, but then again is it realistic to expect not to get a few attempts to hack a network plump with all that juicy credit card info? do they really expect laws and lawyers will stop them from doing something that is already illegal?


The fact, not the opinion, is that sony's actions are directly responsible for the whole fiasco..
That would be an opinion. You can't back up this 'fact'. People are going to disagree on where the blame should be placed.

Well if you think about the way things happened... then I don't see how you can't see the "whys"

croatoan
05-31-2011, 10:10 AM
The fact, not the opinion, is that sony's actions are directly responsible for the whole fiasco..
That would be an opinion. You can't back up this 'fact'. People are going to disagree on where the blame should be placed.

So Sony made them do it. Sony are responsible....................The voices in my head made me kill.

Not directly responsible at all as the hackers could have acted differently. So neither scenario is actually fact. lol

croatoan
05-31-2011, 10:13 AM
This is all I'm saying, so you just agreed with me. Am I not allowed to laugh my ass off at sony's idiocy now? I'm not personally doing anything to them, merely enjoying the show they so graciously put on.

I've never questioned their right to sue the internets, in fact, I have ALWAYS said that had they tried the scare tactics on geohot instead of removing OtherOS, then maybe I'd be more sympathetic with some of their actions; all that I've always questioned, rather said, is that sony's court crusade will do more harm than good, and lo and behold the results.

I have never said that I support the theft of data, my data is also on there afterall, but I will try to take the situation in stride, and laugh at what I can. True until Anonymous got involved I did wholefuly agree with everything, including PSN being down. Sure you have to place some blame on the hackers, but then again is it realistic to expect not to get a few attempts to hack a network plump with all that juicy credit card info? do they really expect laws and lawyers will stop them from doing something that is already illegal?



Well if you think about the way things happened... then I don't see how you can't see the "whys"

I see your point entirely, Its just the lay of blame for everything at Sony's door is not wholly justified. They did deserve a kicking but you have to stop at a certain point or you lose the support of the people you are suppose to be sticking up for lol

Think they will have to have a big coffee morning and chat about what happens before they kick the cunsumers in the chops next time. ;)

msanchez
05-31-2011, 12:19 PM
I see your point entirely, Its just the lay of blame for everything at Sony's door is not wholly justified. They did deserve a kicking but you have to stop at a certain point or you lose the support of the people you are suppose to be sticking up for lol

Think they will have to have a big coffee morning and chat about what happens before they kick the cunsumers in the chops next time. ;)

Well I can't really blame a hacker for... well hacking stuff. Who's responsibility was it to safeguard the info? should they really have simply relied on the good faith of others' which is what apparently they did.

And I've been saying it for a while, I wouldn't associate the people hacking sony to bits now, to the people that openly said they were doing it to stick up for consumers; although, we still haven't heard anybody getting screwed by the leaks yet, so it could well be somebody just decided to create this mess to put sony on the spot... which we gotta admit worked. In any case, whether it's somebody doing for consumers, or not, I wouldn't still consider this part of the "movement" if you wanna call it that. To be honest, after all the moaning when PSN was brought down I would have personally said "F*ck all of you, if you want to continue getting raped, be my guests" and left sony and their loyals to their own devices. In other words, I doubt the people doing these things care about our "support" anywhere near as much as they care about our info; I hope to be proven wrong over time, but for now this is what I would assume.

And about the things that happened and whether or not they are fact, how can you say this is not a direct result of sony's actions? I could understand an argument that maybe had they tried to stop hackers on the tech level that things might have been worst (don't really see how though), but the whole things with sony websites is one way or the other a direct reaction to sony's court escapades.

{{909}}
05-31-2011, 12:28 PM
MS were found to be using cracked software (wavelab, i think) in the production of XP, does that count?

shakoor_h
05-31-2011, 12:56 PM
What I don't understand is how some of you can still defend sony's actions, not because it goes against hackers, not because you don't hate them, but because the facts have proven that their actions were WRONG! You tell me, what good came of resorting to the courts? the saying "adding fuel to the fire" holds very true in this case.

How exactly was it wrong? Sony did what they had to protect their business, and if they want to sue the guy who released all the encryption codes, it's up to them is it not? That is much better a response than lying back and saying yeah whatever, that would cause a lot of publishers to leave Sony systems altogether, and then we would never get any good games. If you are too stupid to see that, then you can't be helped.

Imagine if someone messed with your car so you can't drive it, and you knew who it was, you just going to leave them be? No you wouldn't, because if you did you would be an idiot. That's basically what you're saying Sony should have done. Geohot was the one who wanted the fame of "hacking the PS3", if he'd just stayed anonymous he wold have been perfectly fine. It's his own fault that he was caught.

And the hackers are not wrong in this at all? I get that Sony could have done more to protect the PSN, but EVERY system can be hacked, if you think XBL or Wii is more secure, you're incredibly stupid. The consumers are the victims, hackers have done nothing for us. If you want to run CFW, do it, don't hack a public service just because you don't like that Sony sued one idiot!

osnoozeo
05-31-2011, 05:12 PM
lol who let greenhammer back from under the desk, blowing the ceo's of sony! lol no punn intended!!!!

msanchez
05-31-2011, 06:41 PM
How exactly was it wrong? Sony did what they had to protect their business, and if they want to sue the guy who released all the encryption codes, it's up to them is it not? That is much better a response than lying back and saying yeah whatever, that would cause a lot of publishers to leave Sony systems altogether, and then we would never get any good games. If you are too stupid to see that, then you can't be helped.

How is it wrong? you're seriously asking that question in spite of the onslaught of hacks sony has been the victim of? really? you really can't see why it's wrong? My friend, if there's someone who needs help here it seems to be you. LOL! about publishers leaving, because in your mind sony's incompetence has given publishers more confidence? And just exactly what do you mean about the "any good games"? Are you by chance suggesting that only sony has good games? If that's the case then I'm obviously wasting precious time replying to you.


Imagine if someone messed with your car so you can't drive it, and you knew who it was, you just going to leave them be? No you wouldn't, because if you did you would be an idiot. That's basically what you're saying Sony should have done. Geohot was the one who wanted the fame of "hacking the PS3", if he'd just stayed anonymous he wold have been perfectly fine. It's his own fault that he was caught.

We really should stop making this analogies, but here let me pick yours apart. I would most certainly stay quiet if I'm dealing with somebody who doesn't care about the law. Why would I further endanger myself by trying to go up against some thug? Sorry I don't live in the wild west, and I have a clear enough mind to know that sometimes the best reaction is to do nothing. Not saying that's what sony should have done... they just shouldn't have done ANY of the things they did do.

Oh and for the umpteenth time, I don't give 2 craps about geohot, many on here know that I can't really stand the guy for being a fame whore, and even in this very thread I suggested that had sony dealt with him from the get go things might have been different. The only reason why I wanted him to own sony is because sony annoys me more than he does, and quite frankly his actions shouldn't affect me anyways.


And the hackers are not wrong in this at all? I get that Sony could have done more to protect the PSN, but EVERY system can be hacked, if you think XBL or Wii is more secure, you're incredibly stupid. The consumers are the victims, hackers have done nothing for us. If you want to run CFW, do it, don't hack a public service just because you don't like that Sony sued one idiot!

You are looking at this from a fanboy perspective, when did I ever say that xbl is more secure? I wouldn't even know since I've never logged into xbl, nor have I played/bought anything online on the wii. More importantly, you make a very good point, and that is that every console can be hacked... yet who's the one that got their ass handed to them?... ponder that for a second, now ponder on this next question, who's the only company that has gone after homebrew minded hackers with their lawyers?... I'm betting the answer to both questions is the same company.

Nintendo, and MS do go after people that are pirating and they raid houses and they lobby in front of politicians, yet nobody has cared, why? because the people that they went after are making money by selling pirated software, and as such are scum.

Oh and again, my only concern is OtherOS.... I don't really care the reasons why the hackers are destroying sony, I'm just enjoying the ride. In the words of that wise person... "HA - HA!"

Calidrifter
05-31-2011, 11:15 PM
So Sony made them do it. Sony are responsible....................The voices in my head made me kill.

Not directly responsible at all as the hackers could have acted differently. So neither scenario is actually fact. lol

That was kinda my point :cool:

Retroboy
06-01-2011, 04:07 AM
thing is people constantly blame sony and dont see anything else.

what came first, EGG or CHICKEN!!

in this case, hackers came first. sony did not want hackers hacking its console.

no law says any company has to work with hackers, so why do so many here think sony should, i find you only work with a hacker if you cant block them.

and then hackers aka the fanboys took it too far and targeted anything sony to make them look bad.

but any normal person can see that any company can be subjected to hackers, and if hackers want to get into something they will.

all this now is just personal grudge, you see this alot with people here, who hate sony, ok have a beef with the ps3, but look at anything else ei ngp price drop, yet again full of the same people slating contradicting themselves, when many slated high cost of ps3, then complain at price cut ngp.

they then moan at sony reducing cost of ps3 removing PS2 feature, and still moan claiming BS to thrive ps2 sales (not to mention ps2 is almost dead)

its clear no matter what (and you can read it your self) no matter what sony do, you hate them, the fact you people cant agree to this, and come back with more blx, simply shows even more how much you hate sony.

i have a nuetral view on sony, it plays games, thats all i wanted the ps3 for, same as my 360, i dont favor the 360 over my ps3, because im not a childish fanboy.

but i guess you have your fingers in your ears, screaming la la la la your not accepting that hackers started this, sony had a right to take action, hackers have now taken it too far.

msanchez
06-01-2011, 08:01 AM
Ok then, greenboy... what do you suggest we do then? blame the hackers?... great, now exactly what will that do? Please... elighten me.

And once again, yes no company is above getting hacked to bits, so why did this happen to sony out all the gaming manufacturers? If anything ms should be the one to receive this kind of treatment, because as you may or may not be aware ms = satan in most hardcore linux communities, and yet it didn't happen to ms, at least nowhere near the same scale.

So again I ask, exactly what do we gain from blaming hackers?

Retroboy
06-01-2011, 10:41 AM
no see it same as me, hacking consoles is not allowed and never has been you are asking for a reaction from the company if you do this, instead you get mad because sony take action.

who cares doesnt affect me, so im not going to cry, its the hackers fault.

This happened to sony because of all the hackers loving the attention from the fanboys who think sony had no right at all to protect its investment and take action against hackers hacking its PS3.

instead they took it too far, to the point of leaking customer personal information.

but when you ask what do we get from blaming hackers, who is the ones doing all of this.

but to your question blame hackers, well if my credit card details was stolen when hackers hacked psn and other sony sites, Who do i blame??

yet you will see AHH SONY, THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD BETTER SECURITY.

true, Yes they should have.

BUT

security is never secure, if a hacker wants to get past, they will.

so who do we blame, i blame the person who stole my details , the HACKER!

msanchez
06-01-2011, 11:28 AM
Now exactly why should I ask for a reaction from a company because their console got hacked? why is that my concern? because my info could be stolen?... a little late too worry about that isn't it? In any case, let's concentrate on this


...security is never secure, if a hacker wants to get past, they will

knowing ANY company can be hacked if the hackers want to, WHY WOULD YOU PROVOKE THEM? You do understand that everytime you say that hackers can basically do whatever they set their minds to, you are proving my point, right?

Sony is solely responsible for the mess of security they have, if you go to the zoo and a bear eats your baby, despite the bear getting shot, nobody will blame the bear but the zoo that expected a thin veil of silk to stop the bear from reaching people. There's a reason why you need security, there are thiefs, and if you are providing a service and you're security is lacking then it's your responsibility. We as customers don't have to deal with hackers, we pay sony for their services (game consoles/games) so the responsibility to secure our info is theirs and theirs alone, just like the failure to secure said info is theirs, and theirs alone. Let THEM blame the hackers, but to the customer sony is the one to be held accountable.

Lastly, hackers will not stop, they will not dissappear, blaming them is the same as blaming water for getting you wet. On the other hand, blame sony, and in the future others company will be more careful and try not to repeat sony's many mistakes.... on the other hand we could go with your plan, blame the hackers who will keep hacking away, defend sony who will feel that since we are defending them they are right, and in the meantime our info and our rights can continue to be screwed.

danight
06-01-2011, 12:57 PM
I find funny that people say pirates and hackers do all this illegal stuff and sony is only protecting themself.
Big companies do illegal stuff all the time. Hell sony owns have the court system. The sue people, then try and get some on insane amount of money from them (the person will probably never make in a lifetime), then sony comes in to settle for some crazy price just to avoid going to court.
$800.00 for 1 dl song that has a retail cost of $1.00 on itunes seems like a fair deal. :rolleyes:
The eulas these company have are illegal.

Big business does illegal crap all the time. Thats why they are always suing each other and cutting deals. So the idea of hackers are bad and sony is good is dumb. In the grand scheme of things you can bet sony does way more illegal stuff and get away with it, then hackers will ever do.

Then there is the other people who say i wish they would hack Microsoft instead. Great debate there. Hacking sony bad, hacking Microsoft good...:rolleyes: Its funny because Microsoft has been dealing with hackers way before sony was. They have worked with hackers, joked with hackers, hired hackers and learned from hackers. Microsoft makes windows! before most people ever stepped foot online Microsoft was dealing with hackers. Microsoft will never have the rep of being a all good company. Its well known they did some shady things.

Whats bad though. It was the hackers that actually told people what was going on truthfully while sony was pretending not to know nothing. It was the hackers who warned about sonys crap security.

Retroboy
06-02-2011, 07:32 AM
so you say big companies do illegal stuff all the time, doesnt make it ok to allow hackers to hack your console, leak it to the public and in turn allows piracy.

think the main issue here, is people are mad over the fact that sony has a right to protect its company, and has taken action, instead of sitting back doing feck all.

lets go back to the begining, egohot drama queen assumed consoles had the same laws as mobile phones and wants to be the first to hack the ps3.

sony (ok unfair to others) force removed other os, then the tw@t kept hacking, relasing information, so sony took legal action, and this here is the part you people have a problem with.

hacking software, leaking software information that you do not own, and without permission of the owner, is illegal, but you then claim eula laws are stupid and illegal.

if you created software, would you be happy with people hacking and leaking it, no you wouldnt.

so why do you find it so hard to accept when its sony, but saying that read anything else not ps3 releated many of you all jump in to bash.

why not stick to your 360.

msanchez
06-02-2011, 07:52 AM
so you say big companies do illegal stuff all the time, doesnt make it ok to allow hackers to hack your console, leak it to the public and in turn allows piracy.

think the main issue here, is people are mad over the fact that sony has a right to protect its company, and has taken action, instead of sitting back doing feck all.

*SIGH* Obviously my verbal gymnastics (Thank you JBSleek :D) are not strong enough to get through the reality warping bubble that envelopes your head. As always, you continue to put forth both sides of the argument. If you want to ignore the relation between sony's actions and the hackers' subsequent actions, then do so... and tell sony to ignore them too this way we'll be rid of them by the end of the year probably.

Didn't the EA dude say we should learn from our mistakes? I'd advise you to do as he says.

Retroboy
06-02-2011, 08:41 AM
learn from your mistakes, hmm allowing hackers to hack your system is a mistake, giant EA would rather opt for a system that acts on hackers/piracy as it means more game sales for them for that console.

msanchez
06-02-2011, 09:10 AM
learn from your mistakes, hmm allowing hackers to hack your system is a mistake, giant EA would rather opt for a system that acts on hackers/piracy as it means more game sales for them for that console.

Of course, I'm happy that you and sony will continue to "protect" company interests :rolleyes: I'm sure your combined efforts will work wonders, even more so than was has already been worked.

ThreeDog
06-02-2011, 09:38 AM
Of course, I'm happy that you and sony will continue to "protect" company interests :rolleyes: I'm sure your combined efforts will work wonders, even more so than was has already been worked.Don't bother, I deleted my own reply. Just go have a beer or contemplate why breeding licenses should be mandatory and twelfth year abortions should be legal.

Btw notice the lack of spammers.. ;)

kcvfr400
06-02-2011, 09:47 AM
learn from your mistakes, hmm allowing hackers to hack your system is a mistake, giant EA would rather opt for a system that acts on hackers/piracy as it means more game sales for them for that console.

Honestly do not bother you show both sides of the argument and they still say you have the problem when its clear who has the issues in life. The amount of times I have started writing a reply and thought why play their childish games. The forums on here are absolutely rubbish for anybody grown up.

msanchez
06-02-2011, 09:56 AM
...The forums on here are absolutely rubbish...

This speaks more about you and how you perceive yourself.

Just for sh*ts and giggles, do you think it was smart of sony to remove OtherOS, take hackers to court, invade people's privacy? I'm not asking if it's legal, if they have a right, I'm asking from a business stand point, after what has happened, can it be considered a smart move?

@TD

Too early for beers, yes there is such a thing as "too early" a time to start downing cold ones. Lack of spammers? well that depends... I can point out a few on here that can out spam any spam bot :p You are right though, haven't had to go on any spammer hunts for a while.

Retroboy
06-02-2011, 10:03 AM
fair enough removal of other os wasnt fair to all, but the fact remains that hacker still continued to hack, he leaked information to the public, this is why he was taken to court.

yet you people cant see this, all you see is sony bad, they should do this or that.

end of the day, dont give them reason to do it in the first place.

this is what started it all, and its now longer about this, its now about hackers trying to make sony look bad, and in the end its the consumers that are suffering because hackers are stealing personal information and leaking them.

so please tell me, how can hackers be given any respect when theyre doing this.

but again, you ignor the hackers, and soley chose to blame sony.

xxsnipexx
06-02-2011, 10:07 AM
*cough* Lets get it straight here *cough*
Working with someone who understands your own product outside the company's knowledge is completely necessary to secure the product alone. Just because people in this world are software or hardware prodigies doesn't mean that a multibillion dollar cooperation couldn't learn a thing or two about the security of their own system.

msanchez
06-02-2011, 10:12 AM
fair enough removal of other os wasnt fair to all...

You are still NOT addressing my question... forget about morals, legalality and all that, when you weigh the pros/cons of sony's actions, was it a favorable move for them business wise? Was it a better move than the usual approach the gaming industry takes to these things, what you consider to be doing "sitting back and doing feck at all"? Did they actually protect (as opposed to attempted to protect) ANYTHING better than had been protected in the past?

Remember this is not about me, I'm not sitting at home hacking sony websites, so even though the removal of OtherOS is the reason I hate sony, my situation shouldn't really matter when you answer. Neither sony, or the hackers asked for my input before carrying out their actions, so my reasons have no effect on what happened.

Retroboy
06-02-2011, 10:15 AM
have you never read other companies state that they reserve the rights to add/remove or change things without notice??

ohh no guess sony is the only company to do this.

but to the point, other os was only removed from slim models, no law broken, if it never came with at purchase.

then egohot was bragging that he is using it to hack ps3 security.

bad call maybe, but end of the day, he was the cause for fats to have it removed.

did sony release new ps3 without features and force them from your fat?? no they didnt.

untill...........

thing is people here have such hate, regardless for sony, they jump to lame conclusions that they remove ps2 chip to thrive ps2 sales, not to forget a console rarly getting games, so sure makes great sense.

the boast about emulation of the 360 which sucks ass aswell, but to be honest i dont care, i have my ps2 and xbox to play games on, my 360 and ps3 is for 360 and ps3 games.

they jump to blx conslusions when sony state cut backs to make ngp affordable, yet earlier kick off because of all the specs would make it expensive.

its clear people here hate sony, but why do they have to keep ranting on, telling everyone?? if you dont like sony thats your beef, stick to the console topics you do like.

xxsnipexx
06-02-2011, 10:19 AM
Did they actually protect ANYTHING better than had been protected in the past?

No because security concepts improve like technology over time. Therefore it would be hard to say that the older product is more secure than a newer one.

Honestly, what retard would assume this in the first place?

kcvfr400
06-02-2011, 10:23 AM
This speaks more about you and how you perceive yourself.

Just for sh*ts and giggles, do you think it was smart of sony to remove OtherOS, take hackers to court, invade people's privacy? I'm not asking if it's legal, if they have a right, I'm asking from a business stand point, after what has happened, can it be considered a smart move?

@TD

Too early for beers, yes there is such a thing as "too early" a time to start downing cold ones. Lack of spammers? well that depends... I can point out a few on here that can out spam any spam bot :p You are right though, haven't had to go on any spammer hunts for a while.

Well no smarter than your viewing otherOS as pointless but now banging on and on about its removal trolling everywhere with your anti Sony agenda like your a duplicate Danight account. But to answer your question to sue hackers yes they are right to protect the publishers who pay them fee's to publish on the ps3 by going after hackers, that shows the buying public not the pirates that they invest in protecting there system so continued games will be supporting the ps3. I say that because I do not believe in the pirates would never buy theory put about on here as if there was no piracy they would have to buy or not be gamers. Also as a reformed pirate I know when I did pirate alot I had no intention of buying half the games even though I bought loads. I am reformed because of the collecting over playing that became a problem for me. OtherOs I have little opinion on because I saw its original inclusion after trying it as being just another attempt at European tax classification, so inclusion was more daft than taking away in some respects as you yourself complained it was rubbish and many more at the time pointed out the lack of gpu hampered it. Perhaps a good will gesture. Invading peoples privacy depends on the depth and reason so cannot be judged like some anti riaa/mpaa fool who just has a bee in his/her bonnet, so has to be seen case for case before I could judge. If you mean root kits then this is nothing to do with consoles so not relevant to this site to me, not keen on drm of any form but we as humans have been shown that when given freedoms we lie and cheat and steal thats why we formulated laws in the firstplace. So drm becomes necessary to prevent copyright theft in the digital age.

msanchez
06-02-2011, 10:24 AM
No because security concepts improve like technology over time. Therefore it would be hard to say that the older product is more secure than a newer one.

Honestly, what retard would assume this in the first place?

Maybe I should have worded that better as to not cause any confusion. In practical terms, is sony's investment in the ps3 looking more secure, than their investment in the ps2? is how I probably should have wrote it. I just want to address the stance that sony's actions were a good way to "protect" themselves. In other words, the question is not about security of the network or the console, but of their investment in it.

msanchez
06-02-2011, 10:26 AM
... that shows the buying public not the pirates that they invest in protecting there system...


.... LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Do you want some *FAIL* with your *FACEPALM*?

Oh and I've never denied that I didn't use OtherOS much in it's current state, since day ONE I always said it's the principal of the whole thing I will not forgive sony for. Also, you will also note that I said many times how I was waiting devs would find a way around the restrictions because I was fully intent on not buying an HTPC.

Anyways sure it was right (smart?) to do all they did, the outcome of their actions really shows this LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

GO-GO GADGET DENIAL!

Retroboy
06-02-2011, 10:28 AM
In other words, the question is not about security of the network or the console, but of their investment in it.

but how do you protect from hackers???

they break it, you fix it, you dont fix it unless its broken, if its not broken its safe.

are you going to add more locks to your front door, add a steal door, because i could break in if i wanted.

but the ps3 scene was great, this site didnt have so much bashing going on, untill someone started hacking, so is it not fair to blame hacking for all of this, its clearly the cause, go back before it was happening, everythign was great.

but anyways lets bring this back to the topic.

MS wont take action against a person hacking a game, the game is not MS product, and refrencing sony into this is lame, because theres a clear difference in hacking a game, and a console.

how people say YEAH MS ROCK they dont sue hackers are clear fanboys.

and to make clear MS working with the hacker of the game is maybe to prevent those using the hack in the game online, which sony also try to combat.

danight
06-02-2011, 10:37 AM
fair enough removal of other os wasnt fair to all, but the fact remains that hacker still continued to hack, he leaked information to the public, this is why he was taken to court.


But he hacked to restore OTHER OS! Sony never said exactly why OTHER OS was pulled. We know the slim model was no longer shipping with it (so it was clear sony did not want it in ps3) but then the pull it from fat models using security as a reason (because their eula allows them to do what ever they want in the name of security).
So geohot worked to bring OTHER OS back to those who bought a console with OTHER OS!


hacking software, leaking software information that you do not own, and without permission of the owner, is illegal, but you then claim eula laws are stupid and illegal.Ive been on the net to long. Hackers where here before me and will be probably forever. If i made software i would EXPECT it to get hacked! Think of ideas that may encourage people to buy my product like free updates. Like any retail store theft is factored in! Every store has a certain amount of theft and thats why they do inventory checks.

EULA in alot of case are illegal. You dont sign them before you buy the product and they are worded that you need a lawyer present to understand the full scope of the agreement. Which is never mentioned in ads.
This is not just sony but most companies have bs eula or terms of use.


why not stick to your 360AMG!!!!!! serious!!!! Look at the thread title!!!!! Now we are in a microsoft thread and your telling me to stick to my microsoft product.
But it wouldnt matter if i owned a ps3, you would still claim im a xbot. Dont deny it.
ps3 fans often say if you dont like it so much dont buy it! I didnt
why do i talk about subjects not microsoft related? Because its a news website, thats what we do here. Talk about hot topics in gaming. There is no guideline that says you can only talk about something you own.

BTW im glad your back greeny... i missed seeing "egohot" :cool: and the little debates that come with it.

msanchez
06-02-2011, 10:38 AM
but how do you protect from hackers???

they break it, you fix it, you dont fix it unless its broken, if its not broken its safe.

are you going to add more locks to your front door, add a steal door, because i could break in if i wanted.

but the ps3 scene was great, this site didnt have so much bashing going on, untill someone started hacking, so is it not fair to blame hacking for all of this, its clearly the cause, go back before it was happening, everythign was great.

but anyways lets bring this back to the topic.

MS wont take action against a person hacking a game, the game is not MS product, and refrencing sony into this is lame, because theres a clear difference in hacking a game, and a console.

how people say YEAH MS ROCK they dont sue hackers are clear fanboys.

and to make clear MS working with the hacker of the game is maybe to prevent those using the hack in the game online, which sony also try to combat.

LOL! I love how (UN)gracefully you dodge topics.

Retroboy
06-02-2011, 10:41 AM
how is it dodge??

its just clear that everytime valid point get made, you people cant accept it, you will only see sony evil.

@ dan the stick to your 360 was meaning stop also posting your hate in sony topics, which you do, or wait forgot you will deny lol

ThreeDog
06-02-2011, 10:42 AM
Honestly do not bother you show both sides of the argument and they still say you have the problem when its clear who has the issues in life. The amount of times I have started writing a reply and thought why play their childish games. The forums on here are absolutely rubbish for anybody grown up.
I would happily get involved but unlike debating the issues with yourself it's usually more like debating with a raving bible thumper screaming damnation and Ceiling Cat VII. What would be the point in entering such a debate when someone is having to reinforce their argument claiming to know what a mainstream publisher thinks of the issue (fiction).

My response to his above would be something along the lines of: Would the mentioned publisher also consider:


Consistently lower game sales on the secure system.
Consistently higher game sales on the insecure system.
A breached developer network which enabled gamers to steal software.
The inability to secure their systems or identify accessed data.
A lack of trust relating to credit card payments.
Calls to arms from hackers everywhere.
No lines of communication that would help prevent further breeches.
Fading investor confidence.

Then I would have mentioned how other companies have dealt with hacking situations including the amnesties hackers offer companies like Microsoft so they have a reasonable amount of time to fix these issues before publication also how there are many examples where the title of this thread has been shown to be true.

Finally I would 'say' that his example is flawed in several areas including the fact sales are not reflective of the publishers ambitions and nor can he claim to know them. Lastly I would mention how the publisher is constantly expressing a desire to expand online offerings which could indicate their actual intentions and what they'll be thinking right now while maintaining that it is only speculation.


giant EA would rather opt for a system that acts on hackers/piracy as it means more game sales for them for that console.To which you'd still stroll in and accuse us of bias or send some snarky comments our way and he'd still be proclaiming SECURITYZ EQUALZ SALEZ EA SEZ SOS - SONYS HANDLED IT PERFECTLY HACKERS WRONG LULZ.


@TD

Too early for beers, yes there is such a thing as "too early" a time to start downing cold ones. Lack of spammers? well that depends... I can point out a few on here that can out spam any spam bot :p You are right though, haven't had to go on any spammer hunts for a while.
It's never too early for a beer... It's great for improving your driving and it scares away lepers.

Anyway, Have fun I'm going to pick out my (shoot-your-own) Sunday dinner. Threedog with a gun BAMN!

msanchez
06-02-2011, 10:49 AM
how is it dodge??

its just clear that everytime valid point get made, you people cant accept it, you will only see sony evil....

You didn't answer any of my questions, you just started talking about what I suggest sony should do, about how evil hackers tainted the wonderful Utopia that was the ps3, etc, etc. I'm not trying to make this a philosophical argument on morals. Ok let's try it this way:

I think sony are the best, I will name my first born Sony, and you are right hackers are bad, bad people... like osama bin laden. I'm sure sony's financial situation will validate how perfectly proper their actions were in handling these scum of the earth right?

kcvfr400
06-02-2011, 10:50 AM
I would happily get involved but unlike debating the issues with yourself it's usually more like debating with a raving bible thumper screaming damnation and Ceiling Cat VII. What would be the point in entering such a debate when someone is having to reinforce their argument claiming to know what a mainstream publisher thinks of the issue (fiction).

Putting words into peoples mouths makes debating or answering you pointless. I find you too much up an extremist anyway. I gave a simplistic answer on purpose so you choose to take it as you wish.

danight
06-02-2011, 10:51 AM
MS wont take action against a person hacking a game, the game is not MS product, and refrencing sony into this is lame, because theres a clear difference in hacking a game, and a console.


every heard of the famous ban hammers? That cost microsoft money because those pople can no longer buy stuff on live.

Microsofts console was hacked way before ps3 was and microsoft was battling it. They even brought in a hacker to help them fix a exploit that could have blown the 360 wide open a few years back. (it was a news story here).

Once again why did all the attacks happen to sony and not microsoft or apple or nintendo? Why sony????? There has to be a reason? Nothing like this has ever happened in gaming history! So why Sony? Sony did something different and thats declare war on them and sent in its legal pitbulls to chew them up.
You where here... you saw it unfold like we did. You say how can people say leave hackers alone. Because pissing off the hackers gets stuff like this to happen! You dont walk in the ghetto with a butter knife screaming "dont break into my car or ill call the cops and sue your dumb asses". They wont only break into your car but you will probably get shot.
Thats what people where saying about leave hackers alone. You dont bring a pen to a gun fight. Its common sense.

msanchez
06-02-2011, 10:53 AM
Boom!!!!!!!!

JonathanD
06-02-2011, 11:26 AM
This thread is funny.

People need to stop trying to convince Greenhammer that Sony isn't perfect he will see everything they do as great. Greenhammer needs to stop trying to convince everyone that hackers are evil and Sony is innocent. The truth is in the middle, Sony is not perfect in fact the amount of fail they have pulled off in the last few months has been epic to say the least. The hackers, giving back OtherOS was great, hacking into PSN and downloading everyones information eh not a good thing...

On the whole my opinion is that Sony has done nearly as much damage as the hackers have to Sony.

ThreeDog
06-02-2011, 11:34 AM
Putting words into peoples mouths makes debating or answering you pointless. I find you too much up an extremist anyway. I gave a simplistic answer on purpose so you choose to take it as you wish.
I am happy to indulge you, perhaps you were not aiming at myself in the first place? Indeed my views can sometimes be extreme (I do try) but then your post appeared quite provocative after my attempt to wind things down instead of continuing on the road we've repeatedly walked and complained about a million times. I hope you'll realise that my reply was not meant to be insulting towards you, but an indirect counter argument to what was posted along with my reasoning for skipping the debate and making my comment.

"Honestly do not bother you show both sides of the argument and they still say you have the problem when its clear who has the issues in life. The amount of times I have started writing a reply and thought why play their childish games"

Questioning the claims that someone is using as part of their argument is fair game despite both sides being reflected, those claims can obviously alter or distort the conclusion. In this case there's someone that has repeatedly relied on false information even when disproved and/or has made claims in the name of major corporations... even tried to tell danight that Sony had no part in the creation of blu-ray LOL!


but the ps3 scene was great, this site didnt have so much bashing going on, untill someone started hacking, so is it not fair to blame hacking for all of this, its clearly the cause, go back before it was happening, everythign was great.LOL that never happened, When the mods were having a fun night off we actually found archives going back four years with this sites entire Wii community charging towards you with pitchforks.

msanchez
06-02-2011, 12:05 PM
...we actually found archives going back four years with this sites entire Wii community charging towards you with pitchforks.

What no torches???? Ok that's it, I'm going to convene with all the nintendo fanboys to instruct them in the proper ways of organizing (or disorganizing) an angry mob. Only pitchforks? such noobs :rolleyes:

danight
06-02-2011, 12:23 PM
Wait until wii 2 comes out... the wii fans will be back with guns (not pitch forks)
I image a wii 2 owners talking to a ps3 owner to go something like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snW3cM1KipQ&feature=related

Retroboy
06-03-2011, 03:21 AM
TD, sony didnt invent blu ray, same as dvd, sony like all the other movie companies backed them.

yet people slate sony over it, why? when i got my ps3 i didnt have to cash out on a blu ray player.

when you go shopping do you not go for the 2 for 1 offer or pay more buying the same thing individual??

@JonathanD (http://www.maxconsole.net/member.php?266818-JonathanD) no i dont see sony as perfect lol, its you people that make this assumption.

because you people cant grasp that all this started because of hackers.

you people dont like the way sony handled it, and forget the fact that example egohot had no intentions of stopping.

so what, if sony politely tell him to stop hacking the ps3 and leaking it to the public that hes going to stop??

dont be daft.

the reason you make the assumption that i think sony is perfect, is because your views are so one sided, you seem to only blame sony, and not the cause for sonys actions.

so sony arent sitting back and doing nothing to prevent hacks, so sony didnt want to waste time doing patches ect which are useless because hackers can bypass it.

just like other fws, sony blocked JB devices and downgraders yet hackers still continued, then egohot releases a cfw which allowed JB features which sony previously blocked.

so question is, theyve tried the blocking yet hackers continued to ignor and carry on hacking.

if hackers didnt hack the ps3, or didnt release it publically then sony would have had no one to take to court.

how hard is this to understand.

ThreeDog
06-03-2011, 03:38 AM
LOL LOL sorry but you're just trolling now :rolleyes:

msanchez
06-03-2011, 07:09 AM
LOL LOL sorry but you're just trolling now :rolleyes:

Trolling? naw, just seems like he's on full blown SDF mode. Better watch it guys, you know how little animals react when they're cornered.