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View Full Version : Article: Microsoft: PSN hacking is very, very bad for industry



Zeus
06-23-2011, 03:05 PM
You can view the page at http://www.maxconsole.net/content.php?46083-Microsoft-PSN-hacking-is-very-very-bad-for-industry

iLLNESS
06-23-2011, 03:24 PM
ms should have said something along the lines of:'we've been interested in getting hacked for some time (long before sony got hacked) and we think we could get hacked better.'this response would have been hilarious the day after the hacks... talk about it sony style "you may be the first ones to publically announce it, but we've been doing it all along'.

tech3475
06-23-2011, 03:36 PM
If it was just Sony that was hacked, it may have been different. But because everyone is getting hacked they have a reason to be scared, it's not a matter of if but a matter of when now.

Hamsterman-SWE
06-23-2011, 04:37 PM
Wow, I have to give kudos to microsoft to act mature as a company and as a rival to sony to even showing some sympaathy to what happened.I know that it's a longshot of sony learned something of the recent attack, I would really been excited if sony even have long plans of updating the software on the console it self because the tiny updates that don't do anything is just annoying. I am looking forward to see sony take a different approach on PS3 firmware as microsoft did.

WoIverine
06-23-2011, 05:55 PM
What's interesting is that so far MS seems pretty untouchable in all of the hacking that's been going on. They must've already closed the door on some of the vulnerabilities and exploits that the different groups have been using to hack other sites and online databases. That in itself shows that a large majority of the companies out there are definitely not running those "windows updates" like they should. :D

Xenogears V
06-23-2011, 05:56 PM
Difference is Microsoft is a software company, Sony no.

MoonStorm
06-23-2011, 06:42 PM
What's interesting is that so far MS seems pretty untouchable in all of the hacking that's been going on. They must've already closed the door on some of the vulnerabilities and exploits that the different groups have been using to hack other sites and online databases. That in itself shows that a large majority of the companies out there are definitely not running those "windows updates" like they should. :D

Not for nothing, but it's likely an act of reciprocity. Sony didn't go on a warpath and blow up the Red Ring of Death during public events...so I would expect Microsoft do the same. Jabs about this sort of thing in games is amusing, but I think that's as far as they're willing to take it, which is good; harmless fun. Pretty sure that while the fanboys rage and fight hard, the CEOs of these companies probably play golf together and hit each other up to go clubbin'.

msanchez
06-23-2011, 07:23 PM
Personally I think ms has taken advantage of the situation, and even with this statement they continue to do so. In light of sony's actions ms, in the eyes of many, can do no wrong. IF they would have made fun of sony for their ineptitude, the really they would only have been inviting some bad karma their way. Being things are as they are, no company out there should talk as if they are above getting hacked, cause that's just putting a bullseye on yourself.

Truth is any company can suffer at the hands of hackers as sony has... ok so maybe not as often, or by the same flaws, but stuff will still happen to any company that attracts as much as attention as sony did.

At this moment, arrogance is a costly commodity.

MicroNut
06-23-2011, 09:28 PM
Notice he said PSN hacking not PS3.
MS is pretty serious about Xbox Live hackers.
The 360 has been thoroughly hacked.
On the consoles its all about disc access and game hacking, which they dont pursue as readily.
Online Access is ultimately the driving force, more valuable than the consoles themselves.
Its all about the games they can sell, not the games that got ripped off.
Its hard to ripoff a game sold online only and the profits are better.
No media, boxes or manuals, universal/instant delivery channel, tied to a unique user account, easy to monitor and instantly ban-able.
The disc games that are most valuable often require and have more value when paired with an online game service.
Attack that online service and it immediately effects the bottom line for many games, not just the pirated ones.

msanchez
06-23-2011, 10:57 PM
..Its hard to ripoff a game sold online only and the profits are better.
...

How true. To be honest I was completely oblivious to something so obvious. I mean the game can still be ripped off, but there's less of an investment to distribute games online, so you start making money sooner.

Anyways, I also forgot to mention that this "very, very bad" depends on point of view. You could also say that it was a very needed rude awakening for the gaming industry. Quite frankly it seems that they (game publisher/developers/console manufacturers) thought that the most they had to worry about was some kid glitching on an online match.

Nicotine
06-24-2011, 07:40 AM
it seems no one remembers the recent web site hack that gave points/credit to people who exploited it for xbl....or the pepsi points exploit when MS was giving away 360s.....it's not quite to the extent of PSN, but - every company in some form has been exploited/hacked at one time or another.

msanchez
06-24-2011, 09:13 AM
it seems no one remembers the recent web site hack that gave points/credit to people who exploited it for xbl....or the pepsi points exploit when MS was giving away 360s.....it's not quite to the extent of PSN, but - every company in some form has been exploited/hacked at one time or another..

I actually was forgetting all about that :p

However, I think we all agree that it wasn't the fact that sony got hacked, as much as the way they handled things that has made the situation a fail the likes of which we've never known... well the fact that user info was compromised, or that they continued to get hacked day after day is a pretty big factor in the failness too.

Lastly, kind of telling that when people hack ms they do it because they want some shady benefit (ms points in this case... maybe that's the reason nobody is bothered if ms decides to pursue a court case against them). On the other hand people were hacking sony just because, I would even say the recent hacks' aim seems to be purely to screw sony. If they weren't, you'd think they would hold onto the info themselves, instead of just leaking it.

Anywho, as I said:



no company out there should talk as if they are above getting hacked, cause that's just putting a bullseye on yourself

realshompa
06-24-2011, 12:12 PM
F-ck you Microsoft. MS has not managed to make a secure operation system after 40 years! Still over 70% of PCs are infected with virus/malware. MS should shut up about security since they are the biggest problem.

msanchez
06-24-2011, 12:42 PM
F-ck you Microsoft. MS has not managed to make a secure operation system after 40 years! Still over 70% of PCs are infected with virus/malware. MS should shut up about security since they are the biggest problem.

ummm... what? ms is being sympathetic just so you know. You are right about the OS though, but at least they do patch the problems... as far as the 70% of infected PCs, that's more to do with the user than the tool; I've been dual-booting Ubuntu/Debian/Slackware and windows for years, and I don't remember the last time I had a virus; not saying I'm impervious to virus' attacks, but I sure as hell don't go test my luck; also... you are aware why windows pcs are the ones that get the most amount of malware/viruses right? and it's not because they are the least secure.

Anyways, even linux is unsafe if you don't update your software, ask sony, they'll verify these claims.

ThreeDog
06-24-2011, 12:45 PM
At least Microsoft are taking things seriously, but I think what they may need to remember here is to avoid the same situation by being a good company and treating customers right.. it may not be just about security here?

What pleases me most about this is that Microsoft are not making fun or taking pot shots at Sony, they're taking their responsibility seriously and are talking to the customer. It's easy to bash in this situation.. and they've been very big about this realising that they're not immune in this world of computer security... nobody is.

Microsoft do have a good approach to security these days for a company with such a large market share and that still has to be respected, it's still possibly better than the approach other companies may be taking in the same arena. At the end of the day pro-active response while keeping customers well informed about measures taken may be the best approach.

emkoemko
06-24-2011, 12:51 PM
ummm... what? ms is being sympathetic just so you know. You are right about the OS though, but at least they do patch the problems... as far as the 70% of infected PCs, that's more to do with the user than the tool; I've been dual-booting Ubuntu/Debian/Slackware and windows for years, and I don't remember the last time I had a virus; not saying I'm impervious to virus' attacks, but I sure as hell don't go test my luck; also... you are aware why windows pcs are the ones that get the most amount of malware/viruses right? and it's not because they are the least secure.

Anyways, even linux is unsafe if you don't update your software, ask sony, they'll verify these claims.

so true people still don't understand that windows is the most used software why the **** would a hacker target something almost no one uses. as for linux being unhackable just look at the android phones people gain root access to the os all the time they patch, hackers get back right in lol so think if someone makes a virus for linux and they could probably find a way to gain root access and then your fucked.

iLLNESS
06-24-2011, 06:29 PM
it seems no one remembers the recent web site hack that gave points/credit to people who exploited it for xbl....or the pepsi points exploit when MS was giving away 360s.....it's not quite to the extent of PSN, but - every company in some form has been exploited/hacked at one time or another.

its hard to forget those things when you benefit from them ;)

my launch 360 was prelaunch from mountain dew :)

im topped up to live until the end or 2012 or 2013 i forget thanks to netflix/ms and ive still got about 10 000 points left.. all free, care of microsoft and or 3rd parties hosting something for ms.

but definately, nothing like a security breach itself.

Sallu
06-24-2011, 07:47 PM
Notice he said PSN hacking not PS3.MS is pretty serious about Xbox Live hackers.The 360 has been thoroughly hacked.On the consoles its all about disc access and game hacking, which they dont pursue as readily.Online Access is ultimately the driving force, more valuable than the consoles themselves.Its all about the games they can sell, not the games that got ripped off.Its hard to ripoff a game sold online only and the profits are better.No media, boxes or manuals, universal/instant delivery channel, tied to a unique user account, easy to monitor and instantly ban-able.The disc games that are most valuable often require and have more value when paired with an online game service.Attack that online service and it immediately effects the bottom line for many games, not just the pirated ones. Yes and also disc sales on ps3 are more than xbox in many countries. Xbox360 is been hacked from the day it arrived. How much % of xbox owners have modified their console to play pirated discs and MS supports them, it attracts customers more than what the system can deliver which leaves ps3 far behind in deciding which console to buy coz I personally own a game shop. PSN and Xbox live hacking are bad but modifying your console to play rip off games is good. Thnx geohot to make ps3 more valuable. At the time MS is on their Best in providing better security better online blah blah and ofcourse easiest way to modify ur console save ur bucks and enjoy, Iím happy keep it up!. In Asia xbox360 discs are only collecting dust in 75% of the stores.

msanchez
06-24-2011, 08:04 PM
Yes and also disc sales on ps3 are more than xbox in many countries.

The lulz are strong in that comment :D


Xbox360 is been hacked from the day it arrived. How much % of xbox owners have modified their console to play pirated discs

Apparently not enough that the ps3 can sell more software than the 360.


Thnx geohot to make ps3 more valuable.

In the same breath you should curse sony for making it invaluable again.


In Asia xbox360 discs are only collecting dust in 75% of the stores.

Apparently there's not that many gamers in Asia then, cause 360 sales used to/do/will continue to destroy ps3 game sales.

I still don't get the animosity towards ms in this particular topic... God knows they give us ample reasons to think of them as douche bags, but they are actually being civilized and well... nice, and you guys are acting like they are making fun of sony?.... go figure. Oh well, continue thinking that way if you must... don't really get it, but hey not my problem. Maybe you'd like to have your opinions be more reflective of reality though, cause a lot of your post seems to be based on some different world.

iLLNESS
06-24-2011, 08:52 PM
F-ck you Microsoft. MS has not managed to make a secure operation system after 40 years! Still over 70% of PCs are infected with virus/malware. MS should shut up about security since they are the biggest problem.

the OS isn't the problem, its the people who use it. as mentioned by others, its all about popularity. i liked the comparison to android phones (based on linux) being ROOTED (aka hacked) every day. they are updated with patches and rooted again. no different to windows and yes mac. problem is, linux distros and mac do not have the market share ms does for operating systems. with linux, there is so many different variations of the os that itself protects you. alot of linux exploits are through 3rd party apps, no different from windows.

in the end, whatever os has the biggest foothold in the market will always be the highest in vulnerability due to there being more idiots running it.

the psn hacks are indeed a prime example as they were linux based OS's being hacked. all because of the people running the servers. had it been someone competent it likely wouldn't have happened.

msanchez
06-24-2011, 08:59 PM
...the psn hacks are indeed a prime example as they were linux based OS's being hacked.

game


all because of the people running the servers.

set


had it been someone competent it likely wouldn't have happened.

MATCH!

Sallu
06-24-2011, 10:17 PM
The lulz are strong in that comment :D

Apparently not enough that the ps3 can sell more software than the 360.

In the same breath you should curse sony for making it invaluable again.

Apparently there's not that many gamers in Asia then, cause 360 sales used to/do/will continue to destroy ps3 game sales.

I still don't get the animosity towards ms in this particular topic... God knows they give us ample reasons to think of them as douche bags, but they are actually being civilized and well... nice, and you guys are acting like they are making fun of sony?.... go figure. Oh well, continue thinking that way if you must... don't really get it, but hey not my problem. Maybe you'd like to have your opinions be more reflective of reality though, cause a lot of your post seems to be based on some different world.


Man you always get me wrong:
What I meant in Asia Xbox 360 is only liked more than ps3 due to rip offs. My god just because they are doing well in the usa(only i might add)they think they are the best in the world. It's taken a decade, but now they seem to have achieved a solid position in the console business, Nowhere I mention they made fun of sony infact MS showed high respect towards its competitor I'm happy that Microsoft didn't repeat Sony's mistake by basically saying they were unhackable. Considering that Microsoft made a loss on the original Xbox, they've done really well with the slim.
Yeah sony keep on making ps3 invaluable again whenever its units sales are increasing.
The reason I made this post is that MS do not intend to stop the piracy which affect the sales of their original discs. They should have said something related as the topic is about hackers and it is part of the value proposition of why consumers would buy gaming consoles.
Xbox Live is very strong and will go on getting stronger, I can't ever see Nintendo and Sony beating that service.

Sallu
06-24-2011, 10:19 PM
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

msanchez
06-24-2011, 11:03 PM
Sorry, I don't see how I'm getting you wrong, or you not getting me... or is it that I'm not getting that you are not getting that I'm not getting you?.... now I'm all confused.

Anyways, allow my to dissect your post :D


...What I meant in Asia Xbox 360 is only liked more than ps3 due to rip offs. My god just because they are doing well in the usa(only i might add)they think they are the best in the world...

The problem with your logic is that apparently the USA makes up the greater majority of gamers... so it would seem that whoever controls the USA (only) has the greatest market share for games. Of course, I'm not suggesting that, you are... because the 360 has sold more hardware and software than the ps3... and since according to you they only truly dominate in the USA, well apparently that's enough, ergo, i.e. the USA holds the greatest amount of gamers, or should I say VAST majority?


...It's taken a decade, but now they seem to have achieved a solid position in the console business...

.... LOL! so sony should be happy that they have established themselves with probably less that 1/3 of the generation's lifecycle left? Mind you, I'm being generous by assuming sony's position is "solid". They are much better off in some respects than they where a few years ago, but in other ways they are much much worst. Also... the ps3 has been out for 10 years already?


...Yeah sony keep on making ps3 invaluable again whenever its units sales are increasing...

And exactly how is it, according to you, that the unit sales have increased? ... are implying that sony's sales have increased thanks to them "protecting" their console?... because surely you don't mean because they protected the PSN. I can help but LOL hard everytime somebody suggest that sony suing kids helps them sell more... I don't know if that's what you're trying to suggest, but that's what I'm reminded of. In any case, care to explain how more sales makes the ps3 any more valuable?


...The reason I made this post is that MS do not intend to stop the piracy which affect the sales of their original discs. They should have said something related as the topic is about hackers and it is part of the value proposition of why consumers would buy gaming consoles...


...ummm the guy was asked if MS benefited from the PSN hacks... exactly HOW does that have anything at all to do with piracy (which is what you're arguing about) I have no idea. If somebody is going WAY off topic it's you. If you go to the source, then you'll see even more clearly that the talk was about network security... I'm thinking piracy is not as big of a deal for most people as sony want to make it out to be.

Also need I point out again, that despite piracy 360 games sell better than ps3 games? before piracy on the ps3 was possible that was the case, and not surprisingly after piracy is possible on the ps3... yep you guessed it, still selling better. That said, ms DO fight piracy, they just don't involve everybody in their fight... seems that in this case their mistake doesn't have to affect consumers... or involve lawyers, judges, police, swat, yakuza, ninja, zombie samurais, cats hell bent on world domination, and evil ponies... ok so I exaggerated with the swat part. Anyways, not everybody makes a big spectacle of things, careful subtle movements are usually more efficient than retarded flailing.

One last thing... do you really buy a console based on how low piracy is on it? Am I misunderstanding you again? If that is what you are trying to say... you're a strange person :D oh well to each his own, right?

JonathanD
06-24-2011, 11:31 PM
ummm... what? ms is being sympathetic just so you know. You are right about the OS though, but at least they do patch the problems... as far as the 70% of infected PCs, that's more to do with the user than the tool; I've been dual-booting Ubuntu/Debian/Slackware and windows for years, and I don't remember the last time I had a virus; not saying I'm impervious to virus' attacks, but I sure as hell don't go test my luck; also... you are aware why windows pcs are the ones that get the most amount of malware/viruses right? and it's not because they are the least secure.


Anyways, even linux is unsafe if you don't update your software, ask sony, they'll verify these claims.

The last time I personally got a virus was Windows 98SE or ME (Forget exactly what version I was using.) my kids where like magnets on XP and my brother too on XP (porn sites probably for both of them) after I switched everyone to Vista and now Windows 7 my weekends are free!!!!

Honestly I considered myself to be an expert at hardening XP, replace the browser with FF or Opera. Check. install a special hosts file that resolved www.whatevercrapyoudidntwant.com (http://www.whatevercrapyoudidntwant.com) to 127.0.0.1 MVP hosts file is awesome I still install it since it kills those interstitial adds that some web sites love *cough tomshardware cough*

But no matter how well I locked down XP the kids and my brother could find a way to install antivirus 20XX (XX is what ever year it was...) and removing that thing was more trouble then it was worth, I started imaging the hard drives with ghost and just doing a wipe/install.

I never got that one myself, so yeah its pretty much the user... No system is secure but I can honestly say Vista and 7 come pretty damn close to it. MS did some sort of voodoo to make it almost idiot proof. The PC I let my kids use has ran Vista since it was in beta and now it runs 7 no virus's on it since I switched from XP...

Edit: Before anyone bites my head off for hating on XP, don't get me wrong when XP came out I was running it before the launch date using a VLK and the leaked version. I loved it WAAAYYYY more then 9X. It's time has came and went though, and for security reasons alone its time to move on. 7 will run on the same hardware thats required to run XP decently so XP is pretty much finished. Vista is only nice if you have monster hardware and with 7 out there isn't too many reasons to be running even that. (Besides in 7 they enhanced the ASLR so its the best one out right now even better then on the Mac.)

msanchez
06-24-2011, 11:55 PM
... MY GOD, you know I just noticed that I've never had to deal with that antivirus 20XX crap on a vista PC???? As far as the cause, more than porn, I think it's facebook and whatever doohickie-ville is "in".

Also, don't make me hurt you... speak ill of XP and there will be blood :mad: LOL! nah, but seriously it has it uses. I built a carpc with a nlited xp... boots up in 13 seconds, and I can go from the car being off to playing music in under 20 secs. The best I got with win7 was about 6 seconds slower, and I even tried the embedded version of 7. I'm curious to see how fast it can come out of hibernation.

wewii
06-25-2011, 09:11 PM
Do the right thing, forgo your privacy rights and join the CLOUD. Peace of mind. lol:rolleyes:

A pound of flesh, for another institution that will try control our lives. :rolleyes:

thiagodavet
06-26-2011, 06:48 PM
what's going on with the video game universe???? 2 days without any NEWS ????

cafevincent
06-27-2011, 07:35 AM
If you want news you should go somewhere else like NeoGAF forum.

JonathanD
06-27-2011, 10:40 AM
... MY GOD, you know I just noticed that I've never had to deal with that antivirus 20XX crap on a vista PC???? As far as the cause, more than porn, I think it's facebook and whatever doohickie-ville is "in".

Also, don't make me hurt you... speak ill of XP and there will be blood :mad: LOL! nah, but seriously it has it uses. I built a carpc with a nlited xp... boots up in 13 seconds, and I can go from the car being off to playing music in under 20 secs. The best I got with win7 was about 6 seconds slower, and I even tried the embedded version of 7. I'm curious to see how fast it can come out of hibernation.


True about the Car PC thing, I forget that a lot of people use it for that. But one question I have, is that networked? I mean like wireless or 2,3,4G ? If its not networked XP is still an awesome OS especially for gaming and sound cards. My poor old Sound card still does not sound as good as it did under XP. It's an Audigy X-Fi Fatal1ty edition. I still love it, but I love it less under 7 then I did under XP lol

When I was talking bad about XP I was meaning for your average Joe or kids using the PC as a browser tool. Your probably right about the Myspace/Facebook virus thing I remember for a while I had myspace blocked at my router because the kids where driving me crazy with the sheer amount of virus's they where getting from "theme" downloads from random web sites.

msanchez
06-27-2011, 11:24 AM
True about the Car PC thing, I forget that a lot of people use it for that. But one question I have, is that networked? I mean like wireless or 2,3,4G ? If its not networked XP is still an awesome OS especially for gaming and sound cards. My poor old Sound card still does not sound as good as it did under XP. It's an Audigy X-Fi Fatal1ty edition. I still love it, but I love it less under 7 then I did under XP lol

When I was talking bad about XP I was meaning for your average Joe or kids using the PC as a browser tool. Your probably right about the Myspace/Facebook virus thing I remember for a while I had myspace blocked at my router because the kids where driving me crazy with the sheer amount of virus's they where getting from "theme" downloads from random web sites.

I use my phone as an access point, but it's mainly for some location based apps (gas prices, weather, restaurants, etc). I don't really use it to browse the interwebs much because I really have no sort of security running... I think I have about 13 services running, everything else is disabled.

I know what you're saying, for these people that go on the web and start clicking links with no regard for their computers integrity XP is not the best choice... then again, let's face it, if there's a way to fork up the system... they will find it.