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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Forbes: 'Microsoft should give Xbox to Nintendo'

    Another Xbox One 'doomed' article.

    According to Forbes contributor Adam Hartung, while calling Xbox One a failure may be premature, 'Microsoft investors have plenty to worry about'...


    Just a few days after we posted the 'Motley Fool' article titled 'Xbox One looks like a total failure', here goes another 'doom' one, this time by American business giant Forbes.

    In this one, site contributor Adam Hartung, says that Microsoft should just give up on Xbox and Kinect and "handle them" over to Nintendo.

    "While calling XBox One a failure may be premature, Microsoft investors have plenty to worry about", the article says. Here is it:

    Microsoft has a new CEO. And a new Chairman. The new CEO says the company needs to focus on core markets. And analysts are making the same cry.

    Amidst this organizational change, XBox continues its long history of losing money – as much as $2 billion per year. And early 2014 results show that XBox One is selling at only half the rate of Sony’s Playstation 4, with cumulative XBox One sales at under 70% of PS4, leading Motley Fool to call XBox One a “total failure.”

    While calling XBox One a failure may be premature, Microsoft investors have plenty to worry about.

    Firstly, the console game business has not been a profitable market for anyone for quite a while.

    The old leader, Nintendo, watched sales crash in 2013, first quarter 2014 estimates reduced by 67% and the CEO now projecting the company will be unprofitable for the year. Nintendo stock declined by 2/3 between 2010 and 2012, then after some recovery in 2013 lost 17% on the January day of its disappointing sales expectation. Not a great market indicator.

    The new sales leader is Sony, but that should give no one reason to cheer. Sony lost money for 4 straight years (2008-2012), and was barely able to squeek out a 2013 profit only because it took a massive $4.6B 2012 loss which cleared the way to show something slightly better than break-even. Now S&P has downgraded Sony’s debt to near junk status. While PS4 sales are better than XBox One, in the fast shifting world of gaming this is no lock on future sales as game developers constantly jockey dollars between platforms.

    Whether Sony will make money on PS4 in 2014 is far from proven. Especially since it sells for $100/unit (20%) less than XBox One – which compresses margins. What investors (and customers) can expect is an ongoing price war between Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft to attract sales. A competition which historically has left all competitors with losses – even when they win the market share war.

    Will game console sales decline like PC sales?

    On top of profit worries is the threat that console market growth may stagnate as gamers migrate toward games on mobile devices. How this will affect sales is unknown. But given what happened to PC sales it’s not hard to imagine the market for consoles to become smaller each year, dominated by dedicated game players, while the majority of casual game players move to their convenient always-on device.

    Due to its limited product range, Nintendo is in a “fight to the death” to win in gaming. Sony is now selling its PC business, and lacks strong offerings in most consumer products markets (like TVs) while facing extremely tough competition from Samsung and LG. Sony, likewise, cannot afford to abandon the Playstation business, and will be forced to engage in this profit killing battle to attract developers and end-use customers.

    When businesses fall into profit-killing price wars the big winner is the one who figures out how to exit first.

    Back in the 1970s when IBM created domination in mainframes the CEO of GE realized it was a profit bloodbath to fight for sales against IBM, Sperry Rand and RCA. Thinking fast he made a deal to sell the GE mainframe business to RCA so the latter could strengthen its campaign as an IBM alternative, and in one step he stopped investing in a money-loser while strengthening the balance sheet in alternative markets like locomotives and jet engines – which went on to high profits.

    With calls to focus, Microsoft is now abandoning XP. It is working to force customers to upgrade to either Windows 7 or Windows 8. As PC sales continue declining, Microsoft faces an epic battle to shore up its position in cloud services and maintain its enterprise customers against competitors like Amazon.

    After a decade in gaming, where it has never made money, now is the time for Microsoft to recognize it does not know how to profit from its technology – regardless how good. Microsoft could cleve off Kinect for use in its cloud services, and give its installed XBox base (and developer community) to Nintendo where the company could focus on lower cost machines and maintain its fight with Sony.

    Analysts that love focus would cheer. They would cheer the benefit to Nintendo, and the additional “focus” to Microsoft. Microsoft would stop investing in the unprofitable game console market, and use resources in markets more likely to generate high returns. And, with some sharp investment bankers, Microsoft could also probably keep a piece of the business (in Nintendo stock) that it could sell at a future date if the “suicide” console business ever turns into something profitable.

    Sometimes smart leadership is knowing when to “cut and run.”
    Don't forget to share your thoughts about the matter, below!

    NEWS SOURCE: Microsoft should give Xbox One to Nintendo (via) Forbes

    Our thanks to 'Gauss' for this news item!


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  3. #2
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    It is not possible for Xbox One to be a failure to gamers, but to investors it certainly is possible. It might cause Microsoft to make less money by being a drain (which is why some investors would want them to drop it; they only care about the now), but business is risky and sometimes a gamble. They have invested way to much money, and touched way to many gamers lives, to call it quits. Same can be said about Nintendo and Sony, give or take a few things.

    Why do I say it is not possible for the Xbox One to fail? Because I am a fanboy? Well, I certainly am a fan of Microsoft products, but that's not my reasoning as to why... It's not possible because hardware is just hardware... It's about the games. And guess who has a lot of money to bring us great games... They already own a big slice of pie in the gaming world. They can force the console to be a success... It would be stupid to give up, and lose the customer base they created.

    These news articles don't know what they are talking about half the time... This is your typical negative news article that brings in more viewers, which ultimately means more money for a news outlet/source/w.e. What's sick is that negative opinion news draws more people in compared to positive. It's always "the world is ending" with them...
    (I am not referring to Maxconsole, as all news is reported here, whether it be negative or positive, from various news sources. It does not create these negative articles.)

    This is just my opinion, which I hope you all respect, as I will do the same (always do) with your responses, should you think differently.
    Last edited by Berserk920; 02-19-2014 at 07:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Berserk920 View Post
    It is not possible for Xbox One to be a failure to gamers, but to investors it certainly is possible. It might cause Microsoft to make less money by being a drain (which is why some investors would want them to drop it; they only care about the now), but business is risky and sometimes a gamble. They have invested way to much money, and touched way to many gamers lives, to call it quits. Same can be said about Nintendo and Sony, give or take a few things.
    From the investor angle, I want to see the math, thus far it's sensationalized hype, I want names and their figures on why the Xbox Division needs to be divested.

    All I can say now is that these rumors are damaging sales, if potential customers get the slightest hint that the future of their investment (purchasing an Xbox) is in doubt...they won't buy it. Unless an investor comes out with graphs, negative ROI for at least three years, etc. this is just retail terrorism.

    Why do I say it is not possible for the Xbox One to fail? Because I am a fanboy? Well, I certainly am a fan of Microsoft products, but that's not my reasoning as to why... It's not possible because hardware is just hardware... It's about the games. And guess who has a lot of money to bring us great games... They already own a big slice of pie in the gaming world. They can force the console to be a success... It would be stupid to give up, and lose the customer base they created.
    Problem is Microsoft's marketing department sucks, properly played the NFL licensing agreement could've been a major coup for both Xbox and Surface...but all MS Marketing did was a quiet one off (seriously on air for only a week at most) XB1 ad in November (people switching from an NFL game to NFL app to Fantasy football) and Surface ads just get an NFL logo on the closing card (Why not a Super Bowl ad where a coach uses Surface to draw plays and a player uses Bing via Surface to book tickets to DisneyWorld? A: MS Marketing Sucks.)

    Another thing, you're downplaying hardware too much, if it's just about the games, PS4 has the same third party pool as Xbox. Hardware sales are critical because you need to get customers biased to your hardware, if you fail Sony monopolizes the third party segment and your first party selection starves (people buy consoles for CoD, Halo vs. Kill.zone comes after the fact.)

    These news articles don't know what they are talking about half the time... This is your typical negative news article that brings in more viewers, which ultimately means more money for a news outlet/source/w.e. What's sick is that negative opinion news draws more people in compared to positive. It's always "the world is ending" with them...
    Sensationalism is par for the course and has always been that way. The rule to hold is that unless it contains hard verifiable facts, ignore it.


    [Off Topic: MaxConsole for this shoplink Bull, how do I get my cut? My words, my money.]
    Last edited by Crimson Blade; 02-19-2014 at 08:41 PM.

  6. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berserk920 View Post
    It's not possible because hardware is just hardware... It's about the games.
    Hardware is part of it, because people are expected to buy it to play the games. Now if there was something special about it to make it worth wild to buy, that would be one thing. But the XB1 offers very little over the Xbox360. If it was just about the games, MS would have been better off not making the XB1 and instead put all that time and money into making new and innovative games for the Xbox360 that would have satisfied gamers for years to come. But the XB1 screams that it only exists for the sake of MS being able to say they have a next gen console too. With that, upcoming support of the Xbox360, game wise, is a total joke that may as well be non existent. So yeah, while one could argue it's about the games, you are forced into shelling out a huge chunk of money to buy the new hardware that is just a 360Plus for no real reason with no real gains just to play the games.

    Never before has the gap between generations and degree of improvement been so small as it is now, and it's simply not worth the cost. A lot of people see this, and aren't going to be sheep. Many of us are simply ignoring the XB1, sticking with our 360's, and stocking up on all the odd old games we never got before because now they are in the discount bin for cheap. With over 1100 games, there is plenty of entertainment left for us even if MS and the 3rd parties don't want to give us any more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Berserk920 View Post
    And guess who has a lot of money to bring us great games...
    So where are these games? Back when Microsoft was only doing PC games, they were actually more active than when they went to the consoles. As it stands, not that many games are published by Microsoft, and ever fewer are actually developed by Microsoft. Halo, Gears of War, Fable, Forza, and Viva Pinata series. That is almost the entire list of what MS actually makes themselves, and MS doesn't even develop Halo anymore since they sold it to 343 Industries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Berserk920 View Post
    They already own a big slice of pie in the gaming world.
    Their slice of the pie of games across consoles and PC is very small. See above. In the console hardware market, their share is less than 1/3rd. Sony and Nintendo on a whole have kicked MS's ass for overall market share. Only reason MS is even doing that good is because of the success of the Xbox360 that was on par with the sales of the PS3 (which was Sony's worst selling console so far). When the best MS can do is the worst their competitor has done, it's not a stunning testimonial. You can add the Xbox, Xbox360 and XboxOne sales together and still not total what the PSX, PS2 or WII sold individually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Berserk920 View Post
    They can force the console to be a success...
    No they can't. Neither Forza, Gears of War or Fable makes me want to rush out and buy an XB1. Pretty much nothing on the XB1 makes me want to rush out and buy it. It's all the same old games with nary any improvement over the last generation. Nothing new. Nothing original. Nothing any better. Even when you start to think maybe something is new, like Quantum Break, you read the synopsis (a cover-based third-person shooter with time manipulation powers) and realize you've already got half a dozen games just like it. I think the only game I was interested in at first was Titanfall, but not after finding out they told single offline solo players to get f--ked.

    If MS wants me to buy an XB1, they better pull some amazing miracle of performance improvement out of their asses, and create some remarkable new and original content taking advantage of said improvements. I also except the box to shoot off fireworks when opened, and a prostitute with a bale of pot to fall out holding the XB1 under her t-ts! THEN, maybe I might consider buying one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berserk920 View Post
    It's about the games. And guess who has a lot of money to bring us great games... They already own a big slice of pie in the gaming world. They can force the console to be a success... It would be stupid to give up, and lose the customer base they created.
    While I agree that it is the games that will become more important, the problem is that they will need to get more IP out there than their current lot and their lower install base wont encourage exclusives unless MS throw loads of cash at it like Dead Rising 3.

    The Xbone is in a similar position the PS3 was at launch so they can recover (high price, lower quality third party ports and not enough good games to justify it), but it's going to take at least two-three years and a price cut/kinect-less bundle to do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artlover View Post
    Never before has the gap between generations and degree of improvement been so small as it is now, and it's simply not worth the cost. A lot of people see this, and aren't going to be sheep. Many of us are simply ignoring the XB1, sticking with our 360's, and stocking up on all the odd old games we never got before because now they are in the discount bin for cheap. With over 1100 games, there is plenty of entertainment left for us even if MS and the 3rd parties don't want to give us any more.
    If it weren't for other factors, I would have done something similar instead of getting the PS4.

    The only real advantages the PS4 has over my PC is the ability to sell/rent games, being small enough that I can move it around relatively easily and being able to play against my brother.

    I didn't even think about getting an Xbone though because I saw no reason to get one especially given the higher costs involved.

  9. #6
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    Rumors about Amazon can be real, because it hasen't a console, but nintendo Have a console yet. It to expansive develop two console same time. This mean kill one of two.


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    Not exactly, if Microsoft sold the xbox to Nintendo, there are probably a few things they could do with it without exactly killing one or the other. Now, after this generation, the actual xbox name might dissappear, or it might become the next generation for Nintendo's home console, with the handheld being more Nintendo styled. Chances are though that game-wise not much would change, just that there might be a better selection of exclusives.

    But for now, what would actually happen is that Nintendo would take the risks of development and investment, but would also get whatever benefits the systems brought. Any Xbox One's would bring profit to Nintendo instead of Microsoft.

    Of course, even if Microsoft were to give xbox to Nintendo, nothing would change if Nintendo didn't take such a gift.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlbedoAtoned View Post
    Not exactly, if Microsoft sold the xbox to Nintendo, there are probably a few things they could do with it without exactly killing one or the other. Now, after this generation, the actual xbox name might dissappear, or it might become the next generation for Nintendo's home console, with the handheld being more Nintendo styled. Chances are though that game-wise not much would change, just that there might be a better selection of exclusives.

    But for now, what would actually happen is that Nintendo would take the risks of development and investment, but would also get whatever benefits the systems brought. Any Xbox One's would bring profit to Nintendo instead of Microsoft.

    Of course, even if Microsoft were to give xbox to Nintendo, nothing would change if Nintendo didn't take such a gift.
    i could see next gen being a little different if this was ever to happen no matter how unlikely it is.

    what if this did happen, next gen could see nintendo launching 3 systems, a handheld coupled with some kind of wii 3 home unit that was barely more powerful than ps4 but would be home for nintendo's normal franchises and playable on both home and handheld systems then an expensive super powered system capable of running not only the best AAA multiplatform titles but also have backwards compatibility with the wii 3 that way the wii 3 would sell to price conscious customers / regular nintendo customers and the expensive "xbox two" would sell to power users and those nintendo customers to whom price was less of an issue whilst allowing an in generation upgrade path as the expensive system became cheaper thus attacking sony's ps5 from both ends of the market at once, with the wii 2 carrying the majority of the early load and the xbox two driving the end of generation.


    those like many of us here would be able to buy a powerful system that played everything except a few sony exclusives for ourselves and a family friendly system for our youngsters that let them play daddys nintendo games without subjecting them to the adult games aimed at the 10-25 age group of the xbox.


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