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Microsoft also disses the iPad, says its a novelty product

Discussion in 'Archived General Gaming News' started by Zeus, Jan 30, 2010.

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    grapeape

    grapeape Loyal Member

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    But you still havent figured out that Apple doesnt make devices for people like you? 99% of the masses just want their **** to work, they dont care about access to the file system or java and dont know what multitasking is...its all about the interface which so far no one has been able to touch. If bloated features and unrestrained access were the be all end all I would still be carrying around my N95 rather than trying unsuccessfully to sell it on craigslist for the past 6 months and retiring it to the drawer of doa tech with my HTC Touch and Blackberry Storm. Hell im back to my blackberry curve at the moment because at least it does the job properly without "features" getting in the way of daily work. There are plenty of phones out there for the dorks, nerds and geeks but thats not who the iphone is aimed at and wont be who the ipod is aimed at either, doest make it a bad product just a different one. I'm one of the ones with one of the does it all $2000 slate computers...I dont need 2/3rds of the "features" for what I do, I cant wait till I can ditch it for something smaller and lighter, whether is the ipad, hp's slate or MSI's, most likely it will be the ipad or MSI's unless HP cuts out some of the bloat from windows 7 and comes up with a custom desktop...navigating windows 7 with a finger sounds about as fun as performing a self vasectomy with a rusty spoon.

    Apple doesnt care about being the be-all-end-all device for the geek population, frankly I dont think they care about that audience at all. In fact I would guess that if they recieved ringing endorsements from the geek community at one of their products unveilings they would likely scrap it before shipping under the assumption that its evidently too complicated and bloated for the masses.

    They pick a feature set and spend more time on their UI than their hardware most of the time (which is why apple is rarely cutting edge hardware wise...with a few exceptions like the LED backlit iMac). Their focus is dead simple and reliable...thats why they are popular.
     
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    Jinx13378

    Jinx13378 Loyal Member

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    They're advertising it as a 'full-fledged internet browsing device, just like a real computer" or something along these lines which is a blatant lie.
    They advertise it as a smartphone which is another lie.

    Hell, I wouldn't have anything against it, if it wasn't for the "Apple community" which pisses me off the most.
    Yes, those delusional fucks think of themselves as "community".
    Overpriced, overhyped chunk of **** everyone's putting on the pedestal.


    Then again, **** me sideways if I don't enjoy my 3GS after jailbreaking. It's just that I feel dirty using it in public, especially after it became a really popular phone in Poland.
     
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    taiki

    taiki Loyal Member

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    It's a full fledged browsing device based on WebKit. I'd hate to break this to you but support for <embed> objects aren't part of the W3C requirements to be certified as HTML4 and XHTML1 compliant. Just understand a plugin's required for the content that's supposed to go in that <embed> tag.
     
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    Jinx13378

    Jinx13378 Loyal Member

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    So what you're saying is that after so many years, my hatred has been simply unjustified?
    God dammit pops...

    But there's still that thing about the community you know...


    In all fairness, thanks for that snippet of education Taiki; I'd feel better if what you just said was stated on the goddamn box.
    The "just like a real desktop computer" part still doesn't add up and would sure get me fooled if I didn't know better.
     
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    JonathanD

    JonathanD Loyal Member

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    The A4 is pretty much a dual core Arm 7 or 9 with a GPU added runs at 1Ghz and is very power efficient. (I can't remember what ARM they picked lol)

    Not so sure OSX could run on it, and even if it could it would require massive rewrites of the software since everything that runs on OSX right now is X86/64.
     
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    Battlefield

    Battlefield Loyal Member

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    I guess you can compare it to a powerful Pentium 3 CPU or something..lol

    Dont expect to run Crysis on it, but Battlefield 2 would be a nice slideshow ingame. ;-)

    Anyways.. its probably mainly for internet and small apps, so it dont require much power thou.
     
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    grapeape

    grapeape Loyal Member

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    Actually Apple licensed the Cortex-A9 which is the same system on a chip solution that Nvidia's tegra (the chip going in the new MSI tablet) is based on, the difference is going to be the graphics accelerator used. Either way even at 1ghz a single core A9 at 250mw stomps the crap out of an Intel Atom n270 (which is what most netbooks run) at 2.5w...and that before the gpu offload...more than sufficient for what is basically a device to lounge in your easy chair and surf the net or read a book and a great battery life to go with it.

    Actually if you want to see something kinda amusing check this out...its basically a side by side browser rendering of a 1.6ghz Atom netbook vs a reference Cortex-A9 board with no gpu underclocked to 500 mhz....

    http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/...rmance-video-intel-should-be-worried-2010016/
     
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    EL_CAD

    EL_CAD Loyal Member

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    JonathanD and grapeape, thanks for the details on the SoC. It looks like the A4 could be a pretty sweet low power chip for lots fun stuff.
     
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    Battlefield

    Battlefield Loyal Member

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    Yes, this sounds good indeed. :) Mhz cant be compared between brands..I remember the old PowerPC CPU's and Motorola 68060/50 vs Intel..hehe

    I recently bought a cheap Acer laptop which really impressed me. It have 4.GB RAM, ATI Radeon HD 4650 with 1.GB onboard RAM (Max 3.GB GFX RAM if shared with system), 2.2Ghz Dual Core, 640.GB HD + Windows 7. Battery time is 8 hours or so! (5738ZG)

    This budget PC can run Crysis ~full speed at High settings, and Crysis is playable at Ultra High settings. That was unbelievable.. as this isnt even sold as a gaming Portable.

    This means cheap electronics start to get quite powerful. :)
     
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    Cue

    Cue Loyal Member

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    but it's just browsing the internet, not exactly taxing. A performance difference will not show up on that at all. not dismissing the A9 but just saying the comparison is more for a given task. Like opening calculator on your Desktop i7 and saying "look how the calculations compare with my casio" yeah the calculator is performing the same task at a fraction of the power in almost the same time but I don't consider it something to write home about.

    My phone is a Cortex-A8 ( and my NAS device an older variant) and I have a Atom 330 Nettop for comparison. I can confirm that they render a webpage in almost the same time but I think in terms of raw performance they are not comparable.

    For people discussing OSX on ARM devices like the ipad. if you can live with the turtle speed it's possible :p with a PPC emulator and an old OSX.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFjl3Ob3VpU&feature=player_embedded
     
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    grapeape

    grapeape Loyal Member

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    Isnt that the point though? If the arm is capable of making the user experience as good or better with a signifigantly better power drain its done its job. Who cares if it can run crisis...thats not what any slate revealed so far is designed for. Does it feel faster for the tasks its designed for? Thats the important question.
     
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    xarxex

    xarxex Loyal Member

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    Doesn't matter what OS it's running, it'll be linuxified in no time :)

    It'd be great hardware to work with in a desktop environment :D
     
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    DEDDOA

    DEDDOA Loyal Member

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    I don't know why anyone would buy one of these when they could get a far more flexible notebook PC. When I first saw it I thought apple had gone into the digital picture frame business, and the more I read about it it seems like a giant pointless I-pod Touch.

    I have no doubt apple fanatics will love it, the majority of people without money to burn on gimics will just get a laptop/notebook so as to get real value for their money. That said those that do buy it, if the I-Phone/Touch is anything to go by, expect a nigh on identical version to be released every year for next few years after, that offer features that for the most part that your first gen one can manage just as well, but apple will block by restricting the firmware.
     
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    Cue

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    You're right and I think that was what battlefield said; it's still for the internet and small apps. ARM based MIDs have been doing this for over a year already. Cortex A8 already renders a webpage like a desktop pc. the ipad just does it with a newer ARM and a bigger screen. so it doesn't fit in the pocket that you just emptied to pay for it.

    I just don't think we should start comparing the ipad to something it's not, other than the problem the user has. If your current iphone/ipod screen is small for a given task then get the ipad. if not, don't expect the ipad to do something your current ARM based phone or MID can't do now. I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise yet.
     
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    grapeape

    grapeape Loyal Member

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    Show me an instant on notebook thats touch sensitive and has a 10 hour battery life and you might be right. Its a niche..but I think its a potentially large one.

    I dont see how offering a "new" model is any different from any other manufacturer for handheld crap...the zune has had 4 generations in 3 years, the Kindle has had 2 generations in 2 years, Sony Reader has had 6 models in 3 yeas, the gameboy has had a new generation every 2 years like clockwork since the 90's. Dont even get started on cell phone manufacturers, HTC alone in just the Touch series have had 16 models in 2 years and 6 different Android phones in less than a year and a half.
     
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    EL_CAD

    EL_CAD Loyal Member

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    I wouldn't put my money on that one yet. I think that main reason Apple went with a custom chip was to prevent jail breaking.
     
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    DEDDOA

    DEDDOA Loyal Member

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    The battery life and touch scrren won't matter a jot to most people if it can't offer thsame level of flexibility at the same price, it is most certainly less than a niche, unlike other overpriced apple products it's not somthing that has a major market to break in to it's more of a gimic for most.

    Yes but most updates offer somthing new or the old models have software updates to allow what is possible to run on the hardware as close as it can to the new hardware. If the I-Phone/touch is anything to go by, and this jsut seems like a big screen version, there is a good chance it will come with intentionally gimped features that need third party hackers to activate for free. The only reaon that apple even offered the newer firmware to older Iphones was due to hackers proving they were holding them back intentionally. I'm sorry but after the joke that is the I-phone (hardware that was as capable as the competition but intentionally limited in software in order to make money on features all other phones give for free by default) I'd never trust another apple product especially given that they charge more and give less unless you make many purchases from the I-Tunes store.
     
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    JonathanD

    JonathanD Loyal Member

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    Hmm you are probably right about that....

    The reason behind my thinking is that the iPad will not run flash and Apple says flash sucks.... The blame OS cashes on flash.... So no flash for the iPad.

    The real reason flash will not run on the iPad?

    Flash games would or could compete with Apples app store crap that sells for a dollar or two. The iPad is powerful enough to run something from a web page like newgrounds.com (great fun little games there)
     
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    EL_CAD

    EL_CAD Loyal Member

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    Good one. There is a lot of good free content on Flash.


    I thought iPhones and such could play Youtube. Is that an older, more compatible type of Flash? Or is some magic that Youtube does on their end?
     
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    grapeape

    grapeape Loyal Member

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    Have you looked at the app store...they are thousands of free apps, for every pay one there is at least one free one, I dont see that being much of an issue.

    There is also the argument that the vulnerabilities that flash has experienced over the years is a potential hole that its easier to avoid than patch up every time something happens. Adobe is notoriously slow about patching them. Most exploits so far have targeted IE specifically but thats due to sheer numbers...in the phone world Apple enjoys that lead and would be the prime target. Jobs has stated over and over that he isnt againt flash...he is against flash as it exists now and if Adobe desired they could create a version of flash that didnt require such low level access to operate. Just yesterday for instance Adobe put out a warning that Flash 6 was basically unpatchable and that everyone should uninstall it and download the new one, this has gone on adnauseum, while I think flash is a neat tool, it has been a buggy mess since day one yet adobe never really ever freezes code and works on securing it they just move on to a new version.
     
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